Inherited this 1322 Ph 2- plastic breech - Need advice

[Underdog]

Lot's of questions. Hope you can help.

I have inherited this rather battered 1322 from my late father. It shoots, but not very hard. As I investigated, turns out the transfer port gasket was totally missing, and the port itself was bunged up.
When I got the transfer port temporarily sealed with a couple of o-rings, and the pump oiled up with some ND oil, I saw a 25 fps increase - from about 400 fps to 425 fps at 10 pumps and the Destroyer pellets. But then the o-rings started leaking.
1) So first item of business is to replace the transfer port and the gasket. I was looking at the 25% port from Alchemy, especially since Brian spent a good amount of time with me on the phone....
During my testing over the chrony, I also noticed that the bolt kept blowing back open, especially on those 15 and 20 pump shots.
2) So second item of business it to replace the breech and bolt. I notice Crosman has some steel breech kits for this (which are on backorder?). Where to get this breech?
So, I have two questions about this.
3) I have been told that if I replace the breech with a new stock Crosman breech, that I'll have to replace the barrel. Is this true? And what barrel should I purchase to go with it?

4) I have also been told that if I want to replace the breech and barrel, that I'll need to replace the tube to get rid of the rear cocking for some reason. Is this necessary? The tube stuff will only cost me $15 or so...

I'd like to make a Truck Gun out of this thing that I can do some pest control with. (squirrels, chipmunks, rats etc.) But even at 425 fps, this thing isn't good enough to do anything...

5) So with that in mind, I was thinking about upping the power with one of Alchemy's RP Valves, so that the gun will actually have enough Umph to make a kill shot. Your thoughts?

Also I'd like some other modifications to make this thing a nicer gun.

6) Trigger shoe and trigger mods. The trigger is awful! It desperately needs a shoe! Anyone have a DIY instructions on making our own shoes?

7) Grips. I'm planning on making my own since I have access to any amount of scrap wood (cherry, maple, walnut, beech) that would do the trick. What I really need to know is how to prevent that muzzle drift when pulling the trigger because the grips don't fit me that well. Also the fasteners on the grip frame have blistered the web of my thumb... Hence the desire to make my own grips to cover that up and make it more comfortable.

8 ) Oh. And perhaps a shroud (LDC) on the end of the barrel, to.... erm... collect lead dust.

That should about do it.
Any help on the above 8 things are much appreciated. DIY methods on the shoe, the LDC, and the grips welcome. As are suggestions on power modifications to get the FPS up to 600 fps or so.

Especially I need advice on what barrel/breech/tube questions #3 and #4.

Thanks!

[rangerfredbob]

Someone has been into that in the past as they came blued not painted like it is.

If you replace the breech yes you do need a barrel as the leade in the barrel is significantly different between the old and new. You do not however need to get rid of the rear cocking setup, the only reason you would need to do that is if you wanted to cock the gun by pulling the bolt back, it will work how it does now just with a bolt instead of a sliding cover.

As for what barrel, take a choice, Crosman has the stock barrel at 10" long in .22 cal or a 24" barrel that you could cut to a length of your choice.

[Underdog]

Someone has definitely been into this gun for that transfer port to be so banged up. Not to mention that ALL the flat blade fasteners have been tweaked with the wrong size screwdriver blade.

[agninja]

Here's the reality. What you have there is a nice classic older model Crosman. It's not capable of 600 fps no matter what you do to it. Yes, you can clean it up a bit, refine the internals, and replace a few parts. But I wouldn't go crazy on the mods with that particular air pistol. It's better left as an old nostalgic piece, imo.If you are going to invest any amount of time into this project, then just commit to starting with a new pistol. They are literally only $50 as Walmart.  That all being said, I'll still try to answer your questions.

1. You can buy a new transfer port and O-ring directly from Crosman for only a few dollars. Looks like you'll need both. You shouldn't be cocking this more than 10 times in it's current state, so stop doing that.
2. The steel breech is pretty expensive and hard to get for less than $40 from anywhere but Crosman Custom Shop, and you have to buy it with a whole airgun. But it is definitely a required mod imo.
3. Yes, you'll need a new barrel with the steel breech. I'd recommend what someone else said earlier. They sell a standard 24" barrel which you can cut to length and crown. It'll also give you maximum velocity at full length, but your air pistol will be an air rifle at that point.
4. Yes, you need a new tube because you have an older model, but again, now you are talking about replacing all the major parts, so why not just start with a new airgun altogether? Pretty much nothing will be left of the old one except the grip frame it sounds like.
5. Yes, but you'll want a flat top valve AND piston. You can mod the valve yourself if so inclined. But having the flat top piston is a must if you want maximum power output.
6. I do all my own trigger mods. I make the shoe out of Steel Stick epoxy putty and mash it around the trigger and Dremmel it to desired shape. It will last forever and never come off. You can paint it and make it any shape and width you want. Look up a guy name Mountainstorm on youtube and his Crosman "gunslicker" tutorial for other trigger assembly mods. Good stuff there.
7. You can make or buy custom grips. I've made them before. I also put bicycle inner tube or slip-on pistol grips from Pachmayer to help beef up the grips and add finger grooves. Many options there.
8. I don't have much experience with shrouds. Typically its extra bulk and weight and money. They do look cool tho.

Good luck on whatever you decide to do!

[Underdog]

Here's the reality. What you have there is a nice classic older model Crosman. It's not capable of 600 fps no matter what you do to it. Yes, you can clean it up a bit, refine the internals, and replace a few parts. But I wouldn't go crazy on the mods with that particular air pistol. It's better left as an old nostalgic piece, imo.If you are going to invest any amount of time into this project, then just commit to starting with a new pistol. They are literally only $50 as Walmart.  That all being said, I'll still try to answer your questions.

This has occurred to me also. At what point is it simply not worth putting that much money into it? As for the Walmart price, it's actually $55.06 at the moment. But point taken. If it costs almost $40 just for the breech kit and I still need a barrel, why not just buy a new one for $55?

1. You can buy a new transfer port and O-ring directly from Crosman for only a few dollars. Looks like you'll need both. You shouldn't be cocking this more than 10 times in it's current state, so stop doing that.

I was actually thinking of buyin the "Boss Buddy" transfer port with 25% increase in air flow from Alchemy: http://www.alchemyairwerks.com/store/p76/%22BOSS_BUDDY%22_High_Flow_Transfer_Port.html

2. The steel breech is pretty expensive and hard to get for less than $40 from anywhere but Crosman Custom Shop, and you have to buy it with a whole airgun. But it is definitely a required mod imo.

Actually I can't get it from Crosman because they say it's out of stock. I can only find it on Amazon, Pyramid Air, and Archers. Does Crosman run out of parts occasionally?

3. Yes, you'll need a new barrel with the steel breech. I'd recommend what someone else said earlier. They sell a standard 24" barrel which you can cut to length and crown. It'll also give you maximum velocity at full length, but your air pistol will be an air rifle at that point.

I don't really want a rifle, but a longer barrel might be nice for attaching a shroud to,and getting extra velocity.

4. Yes, you need a new tube because you have an older model, but again, now you are talking about replacing all the major parts, so why not just start with a new airgun altogether? Pretty much nothing will be left of the old one except the grip frame it sounds like.

I ran into a video where a guy said that the new breech and barrel would fit on the old rear cockers and work fine - only that the bolt cocking feature wouldn't work. So I could save a little bit on that score.

5. Yes, but you'll want a flat top valve AND piston. You can mod the valve yourself if so inclined. But having the flat top piston is a must if you want maximum power output.

I'm been looking at the RP valve at Alchemy Airwerks:
http://www.alchemyairwerks.com/store/p78/The_High_Performance_PUMP_RP_VALVE.html
From what David tells me I can just put that in there with the original piston and it will work. The only difference is that there's more space in the valve, and it will take more pumps than the original valve so that you can get a lot more air volume out of a shot. Not sure what the final FPS will be...
Is there any way to get 600 fps out of a brand new 1322 with enough modifications? I mean from looking at the FPS specs on the new one, that 460 fps spec hasn't changed any over the years....

6. I do all my own trigger mods. I make the shoe out of Steel Stick epoxy putty and mash it around the trigger and Dremmel it to desired shape. It will last forever and never come off. You can paint it and make it any shape and width you want. Look up a guy name Mountainstorm on youtube and his Crosman "gunslicker" tutorial for other trigger assembly mods. Good stuff there.

I took a look at a couple of his trigger shoe videos. Didn't see anything about Steel Stick Epoxy. Good information though. I'll noodle on this one a bit more. Gotta make that trigger more comfy. He was absolutely right that it's uncomfortable if you shoot it much. I was uncomfortable with it the very FIRST time I shot it.

7. You can make or buy custom grips. I've made them before. I also put bicycle inner tube or slip-on pistol grips from Pachmayer to help beef up the grips and add finger grooves. Many options there.

Yeah.. I'll definitely be looking into making my own somehow. I've got a fairly well equipped shop at home and lots of scrap wood.

8. I don't have much experience with shrouds. Typically its extra bulk and weight and money. They do look cool tho.

Anyone else have suggestions on the shroud?

[mudduck48]

Yes, you can mod your rear cocker. Dump a bunch of money into it, but when you get through you will still have 5 1/2 to 7lb trigger pull. No amount of smoothing the trigger parts, changing the sear spring,etc will get the trigger pull down where you want it, I know I have tried. The reason is the hammer spring. It is stiff and pushes the hammer against the sear. You have to take the hammer/ hammer spring assembly apart to change the hammer spring. O-BOY, now you have cut down the trigger pull, but wait, there is more. Now when you pump and shoot the lighter hammer spring won't push the hammer hard enough to release all of the air. Now, go into the valve and change the valve spring. It just keeps going and going. Get your rear cocker to work and leave it alone. Go buy a new one that is easier to mod. You will be much happier you did.

[LARIFLEMAN]

I have one just like it and it had pretty much the same issues. I resealed it and put in an Alchemy Airwerks RP valve.

[agninja]

This has occurred to me also. At what point is it simply not worth putting that much money into it? As for the Walmart price, it's actually $55.06 at the moment. But point taken. If it costs almost $40 just for the breech kit and I still need a barrel, why not just buy a new one for $55?

It's not worth it to begin with. Trust me, I understand how receiving a free pistol stimulates your interest in modding it, and that it's natural to want to build off of what you have. But at the end of the day it doesn't make sense to invest in it because you'll just end up with an inferior result, and later on you'll look back and regret it.

Does Crosman run out of parts occasionally?

Evidently they have things on backorder or they limit the amount they'll sell. You also get different answers from their staff depending on who you talk to. But, you can always redial and hope for a different person with a better answer.

I don't really want a rifle, but a longer barrel might be nice for attaching a shroud to,and getting extra velocity.

Might want to figure that out then. Because either you'll have a pistol or a carbine/rifle. Pistol is less powerful than a rifle, it's that simple.

Is there any way to get 600 fps out of a brand new 1322 with enough modifications? I mean from looking at the FPS specs on the new one, that 460 fps spec hasn't changed any over the years....

The only way to get that would be with the long barrel or changing the power plant from pneumatic to PCP (which is expensive). My 1322 has most of the power mods you can do, and it gets about 540 fps, though I never pump over 15 times. And I've seen rabbits absorb a shot and escape before too, at close range. It can still kill with good shot placement, but you have to be realistic.

I took a look at a couple of his trigger shoe videos. Didn't see anything about Steel Stick Epoxy. Good information though. I'll noodle on this one a bit more. Gotta make that trigger more comfy. He was absolutely right that it's uncomfortable if you shoot it much. I was uncomfortable with it the very FIRST time I shot it.

I'm the only one I know who has done the Steel Stick mod, which I call the ninja mod. I have a video series called "The Great Crosman Build" on youtube where I briefly show what I did for my trigger shoe, though it's not a step by step tutorial.

[Underdog]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I think I'll leave this old gun as it is and just get a new plastic breech and a new transfer port and seal. Shouldn't break the bank doing that.

I'll hold off on my truck gun idea until I get some other things taken care of.
My HW95 has been languishing in the corner without a scope... 

[1377x]

I had my phase 2 shooting 21 grain pellets at 622fps but it took a lot of work. I had to rebuild the hammer assembly add a heavier spring flat top set up 14.5" .22 barrel and a lot of pumps.
As for the trigger pull I used a tko trigger set up lighten up to the point it felt like a 1701 trigger. A new trigger set up will be needed on the old or new 1322.
The only difference between old and new is the hammer. Personally I like the rear cocking hammer. A 7mm washer will be the way to increase hammer preload. I cut away enough of the washer to fit around the guide rod

[Underdog]

Woo HOO! 

eric sent me an early model steel breech, and this thing is back in business. This breech fit the stock barrel (with a little sanding on the lathe) and a little persuasion with a wooden mallet. I didn't even have to buy a transfer port and seal.
I just cut some tubing and it fit and sealed where the previous plastic breech just flexed and let all the air out.

Pix in a bit...

Thanks eric!

[Underdog]

You can see I sanded all the paint off the barrel. It could tell it'd been painted before since there were sanding scratches on the barrel. I'll probably repaint glossy black after disassembly and sanding/degreasing.

Unless it'll take bluing? That would be nice...

The other thing I notice is that the steel breech has no front screw. I assume that this will be ok?

Also the rear sight seems to interfere with the rear of the bolt cover, and the bolt won't open very far. It's just enough to get a pellet in there if you "pinch" it to insert...
Any suggestions on that score?

[Underdog]

I sure do like the way the bolt slides home now though. On the last photo you can tell that the barrel is seated ALL the way in because it protrudes into the breech slot a bit. That's good because when you slide the breech cover over the pin, it kinda clicks into place as it compresses the bolt o-ring. That solved the problem with the bolt blowing open during a shot.

[eric]

you welcome    about the rear sight --- are you using the OEM sight that came with the gun ? did it work well with the plastic breech ? at some point crosman wasn't too concerned about mass markets and money, so they had a metal rear sight that fit those older variants. i can't recall if they had the same specs as the plastic ones though. if the one you have is plastic, I (meaning me) would probably just use a file or something similar and take down the front of the sight until its fits/works better 

[Underdog]

Yeah, it's the plastic sight. I was thinking about making my own... Didn't really want to grind down the back of the bolt cover.

Hey did these old bolts for the phase one variant have springs under the cover? I took the screw out last night and thought something dropped out, but couldn't be sure. Never found it... (I know the phase two variant does.)