MOLTEN SALT BATH Black Nitriding

[Drdan]

I spoke with a friend about my wanting to refinish a new air pistol, and he suggested black nitriding using the molten salt method.  He doesn't have any air pistols, but has a few "2011 style" 9 mm. pistols.  Most bluing/black nitriding uses a different process, as per the anecdotal input I was given.

Supposedly the molten salt bath black nitriding results in the diffusion of carbon and nitrogen into the steel's surface and resuts in a very hard, durable, and very attractive black finish which some say is preferable over the PDV finishing.  It is also less expensive than PDL and DLC.

Anyway, I will not be holstering the gun and wearing it for EDC carry like my friend.  He does, and says that the finish has remained pristine for several years.  Taking care of an air pistol will not subject the gun to the abrasion and potential scratches that 9mm EDC carriers have...

I guess I could search for more definitive answers in 9mm forums, but maybe someone familiar with the process can chime in here and offer some insights that could help us all make informed decisions...  Thanks. 

[Drdan]

Found this and it's quite informative.  For my needs I don't need to read more technical information.

https://faxonfirearms.com/blog/faq-qpq-nitriding-vs-pvd-what-is-the-difference/

[crossliner]

Nitride is very matte.

It is what they use on CZ 457 guns.

Very tough, yes, but too matte and bland for me.

Handled a CZ 457 months ago, btw.

[Drdan]

I've seen a few "2011's" with a molten salt glossy black nitride finish, but the owners need to constantly wipe oil on them for the look.  As long as the surfaces of the pieces I send out for PVD are as mirror polished with no imperfections, the result will be excellent.   

[crossliner]

I've seen a few "2011's" with a molten salt glossy black nitride finish, but the owners need to constantly wipe oil on them for the look.  As long as the surfaces of the pieces I send out for PVD are as mirror polished with no imperfections, the result will be excellent.   

Ah, got it.

I thought they only appear  in matte 

[Drdan]

I'm going to go with a  PVD-coating / TiN-coating and have Brutuz's airgun specialist Teun Meen mirror polish all the parts before sending them out.  I'd rather have the parts appear always glossy than to "apply makeup" on them for a boost in aesthetics.  The company doing the finishing has gloss black, gloss rose gold, gloss bronze, gloss gold and a very attractive gloss champagne to choose from.    

Looking at some of the really nice pistols the forumites have posted on CAPOF, I am able to make better choices for components and colors.  Thanks!

[Drdan]

These are the super mirror PVD TiN coatings that Mr. Meen can have done in a Dutch factory.  He assured me that his mirror polishing is "jeweler level", which would tentatively result in a pristine finish from the factory.

[Drdan]

The gold is out as far as the breech and CO2 tube; I'm no Francisco Scaramanga.    Instead of purchasing brass CO2 tube caps, the breech cap, and possibly a barrel band, I could have the OEM parts of my 2300S PVD'd in mirror gold.  A trigger could also be done in PVD.

[crossliner]

Found this and it's quite informative.  For my needs I don't need to read more technical information.

https://faxonfirearms.com/blog/faq-qpq-nitriding-vs-pvd-what-is-the-difference/

There was a British member here, Droid, who built an all brass 22xx 

Even the grip frame was brass.

I think he sold it to Ped, also a UK gent.

[Drdan]

Wow...  It would be a bit heavy but quite attractive.  He probably sold it with a pair of Ray Bans thrown in for good measure.    

[Drdan]

I have updated information from Teun Meen at Metura.  I received this e-mail:

"Hi Dan,

Just got a call from a PVD company and they explained that if the parts are not made out of rvs (stainless steel) the metal will corrode between the layer. Even if you keep it oiled.

They said it is only possible to pvd coat after you put a nickel  (+- 10-25 micron) and +- 0,1~0,3 micron chrome plating on it at first. It is explained here. There is no other gunshop here in holland that uses PVD. Some big brands like sig sauer / Glock do use it, but on special coatings / materials. It is not that easy as we thought.


I do recommend, mostly because of the costs / financially to high polish the Crosman and send it for a hot bluing. That gives you a great result as well for way less."


I did have visions of having the PVD coatings in 2 or more colors, but an exellent hot caustic glossy black nitride finishing will also look nice and protect the pistol.  I'll probably black anodize the aluminum trigger plate.  Overall it will look good, and I am adding lots of stainless steel upgrades.  Many functional upgrades will of course be hidden unless you open the trigger cover or disassemble the gun.   

Steve Corcoran will surely come up with a special exhibition grade wood for the grips, and I am letting him decide on what to use.  He's currently tracking something down.

[ped]

There was a British member here, Droid, who built an all brass 22xx 

Even the grip frame was brass.

I think he sold it to Ped, also a UK gent.

Gary raffled it and a while later i bought it from the winner
it was made by my sadly passed away mate

[Drdan]

Excellent upgrade, I really like the looks of an all brass air pistol!   

[ped]

John made a couple more but this was his first one and afaik the second all brass crosman/trigger frame,Grant Stace made the first