.25 Caliber - what base model?

[NorthStaR]

Afternooon Gents (& Ladies if any are reading!) I have a small question.

If you were to make a .25 cal pistol what would you choose for a base:

A: 22XX
B: 13XX

I have been given the choice of a 230mm barrel turned down at the front and back for a 13XX but will fit a 22XX
or a 14.5 inch barrel with built on 1/2 unf, SS probe and a 6.5 inch breech with both new and old screw locations.
(Sorry for the metric/imperial mix - that's how I was supplied the info!)

I'm tempted by the latter but may get both. I just can't decide on the base pistoll to mod. Again I'm leaning towards a 13XX.

I guess to put it blankly, Co2 or pneumatic in .25

Noah, if you're reading this (or Carl as you've used Noahs guns) which was the most impressive/fun/cool/worthy! 
Same to anyone else that has one in either format.

Thanks chaps! 

[Crosshairs]

If it were me i would go with the 22XX if your useing it for hunting just because you can shoot with out pumping in the field. Also i think it would be a better looking gun in .25 Cal. I always wanted to build a .25 Cal gun from a 2240. I really like Noah's.                                                                                 
                                            Mike

[HappyHunter]

Great topic, Northstar!

Just so happens that when I'm finished with my current project (MK I HPA), this was/is going to be my next one. 

Myself, I would go with the 22xx, for the sole reason that I want to use HPA. Hard to get a 25 gr, .25 cal pellet to go 850 - 900 fps on Co2 (I think)

I will be following this thread (and I'm assuming an up-coming project by you?) with great interest.

Todd

[breakfastchef]

I am partial to the 13xx since it can produce very good power (with basic modifications) and be used year round. If you are looking to maximize power, the 22xx base may be the better choice if you plan to bulk or use HPA. The latter will be much more costly, while the former is still easy to grab and take with you.

Look at a couple of photos of 13xx and 22xx pistols in .25 caliber Mountain Air website - http://www.mountainaircustomairguns.com/our_guns.htm. This might inspire you to choose one platform over the other.

[AZAG]

This wasnt one of the choices but I would go with a shotened disco tube.

[MartinDWhite]

The HPA based 22xx would be my first choice (even though not listed)

Of the two listed, 13xx would be my choice. Lack of cold weather effect, easy to mod for more power. Self contained.

If you build either one and don't like it you can always spend $50 more and get the "other" base, and swap the upper half and grips over.

[NorthStaR]

The HPA based 22xx would be my first choice (even though not listed)

Of the two listed, 13xx would be my choice. Lack of cold weather effect, easy to mod for more power. Self contained.

If you build either one and don't like it you can always spend $50 more and get the "other" base, and swap the upper half and grips over.

Good idea!   
---------------------------
It's a tough call. HPA is a good idea as are all the posts given. I'm limited to a 14" barrel and that means a UK limit
of 12FPE so I think it may be overkill for me personally as an Englishman. If I was in the US then for sure.

So my next question would be "What power level, with the 14" barrel, would be obtainable with either model base?"

To make it simpler it would be based on stock setups both 13xx and 22xx. 10 pumps versus a 12g Co2 capsule.
(Co2 at what would be deemed normal shooting temps & accounting for the barrel)

I'm veering towards the 13xx as I can vary the power level much easier. In reality it would end up with an FT valve
and either would have a stock to make it carbine - another UK legal requirement. BTW I'm not against the Co2 if it wins! 

Thanks chaps! 

[eric]

if power limits concern you ,then i would go with co2 .that way if you set it for consistent fps/fpe with the lightest available pellet then the LE can't hassle  much . with a pumper, a pump or two more might make you a target in the LE eyes . of course if you care that is .that's the way i see it atleast   

[NorthStaR]

That is a fair point Eric and partly my reason for enquiring.

I just had a very minor brainwave.....rare moment..... I used the search function and found Noahs numbers for his .25s

http://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php?topic=5387.msg55027#msg55027

I think I'm right in saying he used 12" barrels on both. 

Beeman H&N Match Wadcutters weighing in at 20.06 grains.

          1325 at 5 pumps - 20 shots
                 FPS    FPE
          Min = 353.70  5.57
          Max = 359.00  5.74
         Mean = 356.66  5.67
       Median = 356.60  5.67
Hi Lo Spread = 5.30    0.17
Std Deviation = 1.93    0.06


          1325 at 10 pumps - 20 shots
                 FPS    FPE
          Min = 447.70  8.93
          Max = 462.80  9.54
         Mean = 453.78  9.18
       Median = 452.70  9.13
Hi Lo Spread = 15.10   0.61
Std Deviation = 6.34    0.26


          2540 new powerlet - 20 shots
                FPS     FPE
          Min = 482.40  10.37
          Max = 523.40  12.21
         Mean = 501.93  11.23
       Median = 499.05  11.10
Hi Lo Spread = 41.00   1.84
Std Deviation = 15.54   0.70

Obviously with a 14" over the 12" there will be a small increase in power from the figures shown. Decisions!

[quickster47 †]

I do not have my own .25 caliber yet, but when I build myself one you can bet I will be using CO2.

From having shot Noah's 1325 and his 2540, the 2540 was the most powerful and had the best feel.

Carl

[tinker]

I would go with the 22xx platform


Glen

[T191032]

I'm familiar with there being a few 22xx .25 cal air pistols - I think DAQ was the first one I was aware of, but only the Mountain Air 1325 http://www.mountainaircustomairguns.com/model_8.htm pumper.  Then again, I don't keep up with the big .25 caliber much.   

[AZAG]

NS - 12fpe means its going to be a carbine, right?  Not familiar GB laws.  Once you're done with construction does it have to be verified by some regulatory body?

[NorthStaR]

NS - 12fpe means its going to be a carbine, right?  Not familiar GB laws.  Once you're done with construction does it have to be verified by some regulatory body?

You are correct. It will be a carbine. The barrel I have coming is the same length as a 2250b.
That means by default I will have to put a stock on it the same as a 2250b. Otherwise it would be classed as a pistol.
That would put it down in the 6FPE power range which, is to me, pointless for this project to be worthwhile.

I'd picture the pellet plopping out the end of the barrel or something like a spudgun. 

In actuality the carbine would need to be modded to shoot a lighter grain .25 pellet to a sub 12FPE.
Down to around 11.5FPE give or take. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Regarding the regulatory body. That's me. It's my obligation to stay within the limits. Some people ignore it
but it's at their own risk. I for one don't want a cell mate (or a cell for that matter!).
It's just not worth it IMHO regardless if people agree.

Now the techy bit.
.25 barrel and breech was on a SS tubed carbine based on a 2260 tube to run on HPA at 1000psi
rather than co2 at 850psi. Initial tests levels of 17+ftlb were recorded, a little lower at 850psi and prior to tuning
it to sub 12ftlb. This can be quite easy to go over the UK limit.

2260 based tube converted to bulk fill with boss valve & Filler, basically a complete Boss & Max-Flow Bulk-Fill system
with Filling Head with additional retaining grub-screws fitted to secure valve.

The 13xx doesn't seem appropriate for this build and the majority of you seem to being saying that too. Makes sense! 

So I have two more options. I can build my own or purchase the above kit. I may do the latter if it IS tuned already.
It is a trusted source. If not I'm in no hurry and it's a learning curve.

Shudder...... the Darkside. Will this be it?    Not something I've wanted till now. 

[BassManNate]

You are correct. It will be a carbine. The barrel I have coming is the same length as a 2250b.
That means by default I will have to put a stock on it the same as a 2250b. Otherwise it would be classed as a pistol.
That would put it down in the 6FPE power range which, is to me, pointless for this project to be worthwhile.

I'd picture the pellet plopping out the end of the barrel or something like a spudgun. 

In actuality the carbine would need to be modded to shoot a lighter grain .25 pellet to a sub 12FPE.
Down to around 11.5FPE give or take. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Regarding the regulatory body. That's me. It's my obligation to stay within the limits. Some people ignore it
but it's at their own risk. I for one don't want a cell mate (or a cell for that matter!).
It's just not worth it IMHO regardless if people agree.

Now the techy bit.
.25 barrel and breech was on a SS tubed carbine based on a 2260 tube to run on HPA at 1000psi
rather than co2 at 850psi. Initial tests levels of 17+ftlb were recorded, a little lower at 850psi and prior to tuning
it to sub 12ftlb. This can be quite easy to go over the UK limit.

2260 based tube converted to bulk fill with boss valve & Filler, basically a complete Boss & Max-Flow Bulk-Fill system
with Filling Head with additional retaining grub-screws fitted to secure valve.

The 13xx doesn't seem appropriate for this build and the majority of you seem to being saying that too. Makes sense! 

So I have two more options. I can build my own or purchase the above kit. I may do the latter if it IS tuned already.
It is a trusted source. If not I'm in no hurry and it's a learning curve.

Shudder...... the Darkside. Will this be it?    Not something I've wanted till now. 

I know what you mean. When I got into this hobby, I never thought I would want a PCP. However, I've been watching Ted's Holdover Youtube channel lately. He uses a Edgun Matador on his farm and regularly takes birds at 80-100 yards. Really impressive to watch someone hit something that far away through a scope.