flat top piston

[hstedman]

If i leave everything stock on a 1377 except a Crosman Steel Breech (I don't think this has any effect on velocity) and I install a flat top piston, what kind of velocities can I expect? say with .177 Crosman Premier domed 7.9 grain or some common pellet like that. I have heard the gun is just about at 500 with those pellets stock, and I want to get it atleast into the 600s or 700s so that hunting with it will be ethical and kills will be humane.
Who would you say is the best place to order a flat-top piston from? I guess I also have to get a ported valve- I've been looking at Flat Top pistons and valves from MellonAir but I'd love to here your opinions on where to buy these products.
Hans

[1377x]

if you looked at mellonair then you know the increase in fps you can get by going flat top.it says on the flat top piston/valve page
every gun is different my gun got me 650fps 10 pumps 7.9gr pellet stock barrel
i would say get the flat top valve and piston either from mellonair or mountainair and a 15"-18" in .22 it carries more energy for hunting.with .177 you pretty much have to be pin-point accurate
the barrels can be bought from either place too. either .177 or .22

[breakfastchef]

One of my stock 1377's was pushing 510-514 fps at 10 pumps with 7.0 grain RWS Hobby pellets.

With an extended probe bolt and flat top piston & valve, the gun shot around 616 fps at 10 pums using the same pellet.

After adding an 18" barrel, velocity rose to 670-680 fps at 10 pumps.

I once put 30 pumps into the gun and it shot an RWS Hobby at 831 fps.

[1377x]

yeah! 30 pumps will do it!!
i pumped my 13xx .22 with 14.5" barrel 30 or 35 times shot a beeman kodiak 21gr 662 fps thats a whopping 20fpe.this is 15 feet from the chrony

[breakfastchef]

yeah! 30 pumps will do it!!

I do not recommend that anyone do this, but for the sake of curiosity and science, I did it once. The valve on this gun is now pinned should I ever get the itch to try it again.

[1377x]

i used to do it on a regular basis.any pumps after 35 is a waste of effort,no real gains in fps/fpe.no point in doing it now other than to shoot .22 kodiaks which imo is a waste at 662fps.
if you have the piston adjusted correctly it wont stretch the holes. pistons that are not adjusted correctly will stretch some of the holes in the gun.pivot,pump lever and mounting hole.

[hstedman]

Once you have a flat top piston and valve, can you pump the gun basically as many times as you want? Not that i'd pump it 100 times, I'd probably just go up to 20. I don't know how long of a barrel I want yet because I'm trying to keep the gun portable. I know it will definitely receive a crosman shoulder stock and I'd like to put an RB Grips super-pumper on as well, but I don't want the gun to be super long. Does the .177-> .22 change just require a .22 breech and .22 barrel?
I put a lot of thought into the caliber of this gun and I settled on .177 because of the flatter trajectory and cheaper pellets. It certainly won't be my go to hunting gun because I already have a .22 M-rod but I'd like to be able to go on walks in a trail with it instead of bringing a full-on rifle. I figured with .177 if i turn up the power with the flattop piston/ valve and put a nice scope or red dot on the breech it should be accurate enough to take rabbits or squirrels within 20 or 15 yards which is my goal for this gun.

[breakfastchef]

Pump as you normally would with the stock piston and valve. If you plan to periodically pump past 12, pin the valve in two places. This is a precaution that may help from serious problems that could occur in a high pressure situation.

A carbine looks better with a barrel 14" or larger. My opinion is that an 18" barrel looks the most balanced.

.177>.22 requires a barrel and bolt change only (assuming you are using a steel breech).

Power is always adjustable by the number of pumps. 3-5 for plinking; 8-10 for dispatching pests, for example.

Red dot or scope are both good options. I like them both.

Once you have a flat top piston and valve, can you pump the gun basically as many times as you want? Not that i'd pump it 100 times, I'd probably just go up to 20. I don't know how long of a barrel I want yet because I'm trying to keep the gun portable. I know it will definitely receive a crosman shoulder stock and I'd like to put an RB Grips super-pumper on as well, but I don't want the gun to be super long. Does the .177-> .22 change just require a .22 breech and .22 barrel?
I put a lot of thought into the caliber of this gun and I settled on .177 because of the flatter trajectory and cheaper pellets. It certainly won't be my go to hunting gun because I already have a .22 M-rod but I'd like to be able to go on walks in a trail with it instead of bringing a full-on rifle. I figured with .177 if i turn up the power with the flattop piston/ valve and put a nice scope or red dot on the breech it should be accurate enough to take rabbits or squirrels within 20 or 15 yards which is my goal for this gun.

[/size]

[1377x]

most people pin the valve because they stretch the mounting hole in the tube,from what i have been reading.improperly adjusted pistons cause that.
since i start adjusting my pistons correctly and stopped pumping my gun like i was Bucky Larson,none of my holes stretched

with a flat top set up and a stock hammer spring 14 pumps is about the max before the valve retains air.two options for this
either get a power adjuster or a heavy hammer spring.i chose to use a disco hammer spring.its heavy enough to dump 20 pumps and not so heavy it will damage the valve.
in my experience any pumps over 35 just dont make enough power to justify it.really 30 to 35 isnt worth the trouble unless you are shooting an 18gr or heavier pellet.
.177 is good as long as you do your part,if you can shoot 5 shots inside a quarter consistantly at your hunting distance,then you are good to go.i usually pump 15x and take squirrels out to 20yds.my nephews they like to pump 20-25x,i tell them they are doing the same thing im doing,but i use less pumps.
in .22 i stretch it a little further out to 25+ yards. at the close 10-20yards 8fpe(.177) vs 12fpe(.22),the .22 wins every time.
i didnt have to change my scope zero when i switched .177 to .22 for 10-15yd shooting.that was using a pellet twice the weight as the first.
i have dispatched well over a 100 tree rats at varying distances using .177 and .22
with the .177 1377 stock it was good at 10yds.after i modded it with a flat top set up,it stretched out to 20yds.never had a runner,100% instant kills but i was going for headshots.shot placement is critical when using .177
there is a guy who dispatches ground hogs at 15 yds with a bone stock 1377.he is very precise with his shot placement.
i dont know why people use the words ethical and humane when killing,i looked up the meanings of the the words..
imo, killing is neither.even when hunting for food.
dont get me wrong i kill tree rats because of the damage they do to the property.the quicker the death the better.i had one die in the wall of my house, what a stench. put poison in the attic. wont do that anymore. now its strictly lead poison

[hstedman]

Yeah 1377x I guess you are right because you are still killing the animal no matter how you are killing it. What I mean and what I hope we all mean is that the least I can do for the animal is to give it a quick and painless death. It doesn't deserve a painful wound and a slow death any more than any of us do. I will work on my accuracy, because I want to be able to hit a 1 inch diameter circle at whatever range I am hunting every time. I just want to assure I can get a decent amount power out of a .177 before I dump money into flat top pistons etc. because I have heard that no matter what the power a .177 pellet can be little more than a high-velocity needle to small game. My .177 cal Remington Vantage seems to do fine on game however. Shot placement is king

[cmj21973]

No worries about a stock 1377/PC77B power to take small game with in 10-15 yards.
FT valve & piston are worth every penny.
I have killed several chipmunks with a .177 that had little to no external bleeding.
I have one with a .22 where if had ran off, instead dropping like a sack of potatoes, I could have tracked.

Shot placement is king!

[1377x]

No worries about a stock 1377/PC77B power to take small game with in 10-15 yards.
FT valve & piston are worth every penny.
I have killed several chipmunks with a .177 that had little to no external bleeding.
I have one with a .22 where if had ran off, instead dropping like a sack of potatoes, I could have tracked.

Shot placement is king!

same here! seemed like the .22 doesnt do the same jod a .177 does
maybe we slack off on placement, thinking the extra fpe will take it up,but i cant see that as my shots were in the same place as before
i went over to a friends house with my blinging 2289 backpacker.its been so long since i shot it i forgot how easy it is to jump the trigger on the
p-rod grip frame.its adjusted for no slack so when you pull on the trigger it shoots.

hstedman,
i know what you and others mean when you say humane or ethical.when i looked the words up, if i were being humane or ethical then there wouldnt be any killing. i wish people would just say quick kill.if anyone really cared about the animals suffering they wouldnt be killing it  unless it was severely injured or severely sick with no chance of recovery.then i can see ethical and humane as what it is,
instead of a sugar coating
enough on that
with the flat top set up and a 15"-18" barrel and a heavy or preloaded hammer spring you should be good on power.you can always pump more than 10x.like i said i dont have to but i pump 15x just to be sure.

[cmj21973]

same here! seemed like the .22 doesnt do the same jod a .177 does

No, I mean I have only shot/taken one animal with my .22 "Nightmare". It was a through-and-through, to the head at 40 ft, that compared to a .22lr.

I'm just saying that the .177 will produce a little; self-healing hole while a .22 will punch a hole. I like both calibers, but prefer .22 for longer ranges and larger game.

[1377x]

No, I mean I have only shot/taken one animal with my .22 "Nightmare". It was a through-and-through, to the head at 40 ft, that compared to a .22lr.

I'm just saying that the .177 will produce a little; self-healing hole while a .22 will punch a hole. I like both calibers, but prefer .22 for longer ranges and larger game.

oh i was talking about having runners after using a .22 pellet they make it a few feet to a few yards before giving up the ghost,with .177 i had zero runners.since i start using hollow point ammo there hasnt been any runners or pass throughs.rws super hollow points and crow mags.now i have some predator poly mags i have yet to try.
when i had my disco pistol i hit a squirrel with a jsb monster giving over 30fpe on impact.the squirrel was hit under the jaw and the pellet took off nearly the whole top.this bugger scrambled under the fence then start hopping around like crazy,then it would scramble some more,it had no use of its front legs.i thought death would be instant,i guess the pellet went through so fast it didnt know it was dead

[cmj21973]

oh i was talking about having runners after using a .22 pellet they make it a few feet to a few yards before giving up the ghost,with .177 i had zero runners.since i start using hollow point ammo there hasnt been any runners or pass throughs.rws super hollow points and crow mags.now i have some predator poly mags i have yet to try.
when i had my disco pistol i hit a squirrel with a jsb monster giving over 30fpe on impact.the squirrel was hit under the jaw and the pellet took off nearly the whole top.this bugger scrambled under the fence then start hopping around like crazy,then it would scramble some more,it had no use of its front legs.i thought death would be instant,i guess the pellet went through so fast it didnt know it was dead

Every .177 pellet (wadcutter, hollow point, dome, and pointed), from my stock phase II 1377, would pass clean through if it was anything but a head shot on a chipmunks.

I have nutters here too, but I seldom get to take a safe shot on them, unless they are on the power lines. Now that I have a .22 rifle, I look forward to rabbit season.

I need to get a chrony, so I can get some numbers on these guns. Especially before I put the FT valve & a FT piston in either of them.