CO2 versus Pneumatic?

jdub · July 31, 2012, 11:32:03 PM

I alluded to the fact in a much earlier post that I have always been a pneumatic kind of guy (insert lame joke here). I've had Benjamin pump rifles since I was a kid and have several Benjamin/Sheridan pump rifles and pistols now. My favorite pistols for a long time have been my Daisy Avanti 717 (almost 30 years old) and my new favorite--the IZH-46M--both single-stroke pneumatics. I also really enjoy springers (my second choice of propulsion methods) but I'll leave those out of this discussion.

I've had a few CO2 pistols in the past but never for long. Recently I got a great deal on the 2300S and have tweaked it a bit. It has become one of my favorites--mainly because it's very accurate (largely due to Walther barrel and the Williams notched sights), it's now indoor friendly (LDC), and finally I get between 50 and 60 consistent shots, which is usually enough for one session. With the highly modified RB grips it's also a very comfortable pistol with good balance. The weak spot is still the trigger, even modified, but it's much better than a stock 1377/2240 trigger.

Because the 2300S has been very enjoyable I picked up a 2240 and modded it a bit and after my initial excitement I'm having flashbacks of why I've avoided CO2 in the past. I'm getting around 30 consistent shots from a cartridge. I can actually shoot well into the 40's but somewhere in the low 30's I hear the pitch of the report change along with the sound of the impact. It's not really the cost of CO2 that bugs me but the inconsistency of the shot string with *every* cart.

With pneumatic you pump x number of times and you can expect a pretty consistent result with every shot. No counting pellets. No wondering if that last miss was you or low CO2. So that's where I'm at.

How about you guys? Do you prefer CO2 or pumping, and why?

BDS · July 31, 2012, 11:53:09 PM

Both... but, the hold-under on shots 1 and 2 and the hold-over on the last few shots of co2 can be frustrating if you are looking for 1st to last shot consistency or std deviations .000 decimals to the right!

It's the primary reason that Olympic and world Class 10 meter pistol shooters have all gone PCP with regulators. (the rich man's pneumatics)

RC1947 · August 01, 2012, 12:10:33 AM

I have the same gripe of shooting an enjoyable session and hear the delay, see the pellet and get bugged. I'm in a springer burn, and a great break is to shoot the 2240, or BBs. Pumping the 1377 is a nice part of that picture. I enjoy them all, no particular favorite. RC

ham484 · August 01, 2012, 03:15:27 AM

pumpers for me one less thing to buy.

Serpents Den · August 01, 2012, 03:52:38 AM

Quote from: RC1947 on August 01, 2012, 12:10:33 AM
I have the same gripe of shooting an enjoyable session and hear the delay, see the pellet and get bugged. I'm in a springer burn, and a great break is to shoot the 2240, or BBs. Pumping the 1377 is a nice part of that picture. I enjoy them all, no particular favorite. RC

agreed...now that I'm also going to the dark side, I'm STILL waiting to fill my marauder lol. forgot to order an adapter with my Hill pump and dying to start tweaking and sighting it in..now the adapter is on it's way lol... half the fun of collecting and shooting my babies, is modding them...all my crosman pistols, except for my old 1600 CO2 bb pistol (picture below), are in various stages being completed and will probably continue until I've gotten almost every part in them replaced or modified lol...

arkmaker † · August 01, 2012, 03:56:09 AM

Co2
HPA
Pump

In that order for me

KevinP · August 01, 2012, 04:03:45 AM

I'm a co2 kinda guy, call me lazy ...

it suits my needs
poi is ok at 60 - 80 +- degrees ....
I can hear when I'm running out ...
If you hook up to a tank you can shoot like .. well ... a lot ...

Serpents Den · August 01, 2012, 04:19:09 AM

i get a lot of 10m practice indoors w/ my 1377 #1 and CS 2300kt, but need to duct seal my trap so you dont hear the pellets bashing the metal at the back of it lol... the new breech and shroud kit for the CS and my other 1377, less noise will make em a lot more indoor friendly, not including 'neighbor friendly' lol...

Davio · August 01, 2012, 08:05:37 AM

I dislike break barrels simply because of problems with the optics staying true when the barrel gets moved all its life.

So, CO2 for now... maybe to HPA at some point.

What I would like to exist is an out of the box .22 or .25 that can sling 'em at 1000 fps and 850 fps respectively by way of an under lever with a single stroke. In other words 35 fpe before anything gets tweaked.

Crosshairs · August 01, 2012, 05:09:27 PM

I like both and not one more then the other i like Co2 just because they shoot with out pumping and there easy in my arms and sholders i shoot Co2 more in the summer, pumpers are nice because all you need to shoot is a tin pellets plus the adjustable power level with more or less pumps i tend to use pumpers more in the winter because pumping on a hot day can be a drag.
Mike

jdub · August 01, 2012, 05:50:22 PM

Quote from: Davio on August 01, 2012, 08:05:37 AM
I dislike break barrels simply because of problems with the optics staying true when the barrel gets moved all its life.

Ironic that my gripe about CO2 has a similar effect. If optics move the POI moves yet with CO2 you're guaranteed to have a POI shift with every cart. It's just easier to plan for.

BTW, I've been fortunate in that my break-barrels have been rock solid. My most accurate rifles.

Where I really worry about optics shift is not in break-barrels but in multi-pumps. That's where the guns really seem to take a pounding. Greg's Ballistic mount seems very solid on the Benjamin/Sheridans but the intermount things seem like a weak point in other setups. I have intermounts on a Benjamin and a Crosman. They work okay for plinking but for accuracy I stick with iron sights.

Regards!

Davio · August 01, 2012, 06:41:17 PM

Quote from: jdub on August 01, 2012, 05:50:22 PM
Ironic that my gripe about CO2 has a similar effect. If optics move the POI moves yet with CO2 you're guaranteed to have a POI shift with every cart. It's just easier to plan for.

BTW, I've been fortunate in that my break-barrels have been rock solid. My most accurate rifles.

Where I really worry about optics shift is not in break-barrels but in multi-pumps. That's where the guns really seem to take a pounding. Greg's Ballistic mount seems very solid on the Benjamin/Sheridans but the intermount things seem like a weak point in other setups. I have intermounts on a Benjamin and a Crosman. They work okay for plinking but for accuracy I stick with iron sights.

Regards!

I don't see cart changes as breaking the communion between the barrel and optics. Please explain.

If true, all the more reason to use 9 ounce carts!

jdub · August 01, 2012, 06:53:09 PM

Quote from: Davio on August 01, 2012, 06:41:17 PM
I don't see cart changes as breaking the communion between the barrel and optics. Please explain.

If true, all the more reason to use 9 ounce carts!

Nah, they don't mess with the optics. But *like* shifting optics they create a variable POI on the target due to the changing pressure. Both problems cause POI shift.

Sorry, didn't express that very well.

Fronzdan · August 01, 2012, 07:53:34 PM

I can say that I prefer HPA/PCPs clearly over CO2, pneumatic pump or springers of any kind.

For me it would be:
PCP
Co2
Pumper
Springer

I like the ease of CO2 and besides HpA, it's the closest thing to powder burners in how you shoot. The higher quality action style co2 pistols are a blast to shoot. But I also don't like the first shot/last shots inconsistency and find them the least repeatable of all my airguns. Plus I often like to pick a gun up and shoot 20 or so rounds and move to another. With CO2 I always feel compelled to finish off the cart, even when I want to move on to something else.

My pumpers are much more consistent than co2 and as others mentioned...don't rely on anything else. But they are also the least like powder burners to me and pumping between each shot can be a drag when you're trying to plink at targets a little quicker or don't want to work up a mild sweat when shooting a bunch. Mind you I haven't tried a FT valve and piston yet...so with easier pumping...that might be improved.

Springers have that self-contained benefit and can be pretty consistent. Power is up there too and theres minimal work between shots. But the recoil is significant negative for me. Recoil itself is not the bad part, its that it's so opposite to powder burners for me I cant get used to it. The hold sensitivity really takes getting used to. Plus they are loud and even with some help on the muzzle end, the spring will always make a twang-thwack. I have only one springer in the form of an RWS 48. I hardly ever shoot it.

eric · August 01, 2012, 10:26:20 PM

depends for me --- my R9 is very nice --- rekord trigger and little recoil makes it a very accurate rifle --- heavier than my C9 though, the R9 doesn't need support gear which is a plus .msps --- my C9 --- doesn't need extra gear just the effort to charge it and when it's hot ,it's not going to happen .both the R9 and C9 aren't really temperature dependent so they are year round outdoor shooters . my co2 guns are easy and fun for warm weather and during cooler weather good for indoors, though my 160 is too much for shooting in the house .so it depends really on my mood and weather .....