My 2400kt bulk filled

Afmuse76 · December 28, 2012, 12:05:19 AM

Well I got my bulk fill stuff and my Max Flow boss valve in and installed. I found out I have a buddy here in town from the other forums that shoots air guns and has a chrony. We ran some shot over it yesterday and with it being 40 deg out, I was getting a consistent 600 fps with 14.3 CPHP's

Some shots at 25 yards with the pistol scope put back on it.

chongman · December 28, 2012, 12:38:38 AM

Very nice

Where did you get your valve from?

Afmuse76 · December 28, 2012, 01:02:40 AM

Bryan and Associates is where I got all the parts from. Also bulked my Crosman 160.

1377x · December 28, 2012, 07:27:20 AM

sweet!

Gippeto · December 28, 2012, 07:53:39 PM

I like it, but have a safety question.

Have you improved valve securement over "stock"?

Al

breakfastchef · December 28, 2012, 08:01:22 PM

Interesting point, Al.

Would it matter if the gun is bulk fed with CO2? I could see a potential problem with HPA running 1000+ psi, though.

Quote from: Gippeto on December 28, 2012, 07:53:39 PM
I like it, but have a safety question.

Have you improved valve securement over "stock"?
Al

BDS · December 28, 2012, 08:05:30 PM

Quote from: breakfastchef on December 28, 2012, 08:01:22 PM
Interesting point, Al.

Would it matter if the gun is bulk fed with CO2? I could see a potential problem with HPA running 1000+ psi, though.

Chef... co2 is 800-900 psi regardless of volume (at about 75 deg F) Our lil 12 gram cylinders are 800 psi and so is that Linde co2 tanker you see on the hiway

Afmuse76 · December 28, 2012, 08:57:28 PM

Yeah, I'm still only running Co2 in it for the time being. I plan on ordering a 2260 tube and putting the bigger and extra screws in it before I go to HPA.

breakfastchef · December 29, 2012, 12:37:30 AM

Quote from: BDS on December 28, 2012, 08:05:30 PM
Chef... co2 is 800-900 psi regardless of volume (at about 75 deg F) Our lil 12 gram cylinders are 800 psi and so is that Linde co2 tanker you see on the hiway

That was my point. CO2 self regulates to temperature so pinning the Boss valve is probably not necessary.

breakfastchef · December 29, 2012, 12:38:18 AM

Quote from: Afmuse76 on December 28, 2012, 08:57:28 PM
Yeah, I'm still only running Co2 in it for the time being. I plan on ordering a 2260 tube and putting the bigger and extra screws in it before I go to HPA.

You did your homework! Nice job with the bulk setup.

Afmuse76 · December 29, 2012, 04:16:05 AM

Quote from: breakfastchef on December 29, 2012, 12:38:18 AM
You did your homework! Nice job with the bulk setup.

Takes me awhile to save up and get something like this, so I had nothing to do but homework while I waited for it. LOL

Gippeto · December 30, 2012, 08:59:35 AM

In the event my question has been misunderstood...

In stock trim, the co2 seals on the end of the valve, and the force being applied to the valve retention screw is fairly minimal...that created by the threaded plug necessary to compress the seal and prevent gas escaping...maybe as much as 20-30 lbs force or so. The factory valve retention setup (screw) was intended/designed by Crosman engineers to handle this force safely, and does so.

The fitting shown for conversion to bulk fill has the full area of the tube "bore" (inside diameter) exposed to pressure. The force trying to shear off the valve retention screw is the pressure multiplied by the area. This works out to ~375 lbs force @ 850psi....the single stock 6-32 screw was never meant to handle this amount of force.

That an overfill or merely a warm day could drive the pressure WELL past 850 psi bears mention.

Using this combination would be WELL outside of my comfort zone....I consider it a dangerous condition at best...even with CO2.

Just my .02

Al

HappyHunter · December 30, 2012, 02:17:36 PM

I would have to take Al's side on this one...

It has been well documented that Co2 can reach 1900 psi(+/-) @ 120* F on a full fill: http://airgunhome.com/agforum/viewtopic.php?t=7048&start=0&postorder=asc&highlight

On a stock 22xx (i.e- only the valve pressurized) worst case scenario is your valve will lock up. Had that happen last summer with my 1740. Left it sitting in the sun on the hood of my truck (115* heat) while chronying my 2260 HPA. After half an hour or so, went to shoot the 1740, and it was locked solid! And, this was with only a 12 gram cartridge! Brought it into the basement (nice and cool, out of the sun) and after 20-30 min was able to shoot once again.

Now, if the 1740 had been bulk filled with Co2, and only had the single 6-32 locating screw holding the valve? I don't even want to think how that could have turned out!

Bulk-filling with either Co2 or HPA is awesome. Great consistancy and LOTS of shots, but I am a firm believer in pinning the valve regardless of what propellant you use (on a bulk filled gun). Better to err on the side of safety. I (or anyone else) would hate to read about how your single 6-32 locating screw failed and blew the valve out the back end of the gun into your face!

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade or cause tension, just relaying the same message(s) I got when I first got into bulk filling/HPA

.

Todd

breakfastchef · December 30, 2012, 03:11:22 PM

Thanks for the concise explanation, Al. I better understand your concerns and would now agree that pinning the valve for bulk fill makes sense.

My only experience with bulk filling has been with the Crosman Mark I/II pistols. After thinking through the bulk fill mechanics and looking at the photos posted by the OP, I realized that the upper half of the BOSS valve has an o-ring where a stock 22xx valve does not. It is then I realized that o-ring was there to prevent gas from passing past the valve meaning the powerlet tube was now under pressure. Whereas the Mark pistol was essentially designed to hold the CO2, the 22xx platform was not. Just call me late to the party, I guess.

Quote from: Gippeto on December 30, 2012, 08:59:35 AM
In the event my question has been misunderstood...

In stock trim, the co2 seals on the end of the valve, and the force being applied to the valve retention screw is fairly minimal...that created by the threaded plug necessary to compress the seal and prevent gas escaping...maybe as much as 20-30 lbs force or so. The factory valve retention setup (screw) was intended/designed by Crosman engineers to handle this force safely, and does so.

The fitting shown for conversion to bulk fill has the full area of the tube "bore" (inside diameter) exposed to pressure. The force trying to shear off the valve retention screw is the pressure multiplied by the area. This works out to ~375 lbs force @ 850psi....the single stock 6-32 screw was never meant to handle this amount of force.

That an overfill or merely a warm day could drive the pressure WELL past 850 psi bears mention.

Using this combination would be WELL outside of my comfort zone....I consider it a dangerous condition at best...even with CO2.

Just my .02

Al

BDS · January 02, 2013, 11:59:20 PM

"800-900 psi regardless of volume (at about 75 deg F)"

which is what the post stated "about 75 deg F"

I guess that a 1900 psi design criteria is a good one if your storage or operating temeperature is above 125 deg F?

It was on the internet so, it must be ____ fill in the blank