While there are those that say "you can never go wrong with Basic Black", I'm thinking about adding some color to the plastic "furniture" on one of my Crosman builds. I did a search (on this forum) on painting plastic and was surprised to find that some were having issues with the "Fusion" line of Krylon spray paints. My wife has used the stuff on several occasions and seems to be having good results. The parts that I intend to paint, a fore grip, pistol grip panels and a rifle butt stock, are essentially new (i.e. minimally handled).
I have some (2 new cans) of the "Fusion" paint in River Rock. I also have an assortment of non-Fusion Krylon "Camo" paint (black, loam, olive drab and brown). My questions are: if I follow the directions, will the Krylon Fusion paint adhere AND dry properly on the forearm, grips and stock? Additionally, will it be OK to apply the non-Fusion "Camo" paint to the River Rock base coat? I know that there is a Krylon "Fusion" primer but since the cans states that no primer is required, I thought that I might spare myself $5 as well as yet another trip to WalMart. I also have some Rustoleum Ruddy Brown primer that I could use if it is thought to be appropriate.
Prior to searching the forum for info on this topic, I had read a few posts by members describing their "misadventures in painting" (and have had some misadventures of my own with different painting projects). I would rather this not be a trial and error project and will welcome any hints and/or tips that members may have on this topic. Thanks. Flex
I have never tried the Krylon fusion paints, but pretty sure you can use it for your projects. The only bad thing I have heard is that it takes a very long time to dry/cure. I have painted many airgun parts since getting into this hobby. Plastic can be tricky to paint. I have always used Rustolium brand paints and primers with no issues thus far.
For plastic I use the Rustolium plastic primer which is white in color and you DON'T sand it before your topcoat. Rustolium also has paints that adhere to plastics without the use of primers. I have had success with this method as well. For heavy used plastic parts, I would use the plastic primer just in case. Again this is with Rustolium paints I get from Home Depot.
As far as using camo paint over the Fusion paint, that should be fine as long as the Fusion paint adheres well to the plastic in the first place.
I have had good results with both krylon fusion and krylon camo spray paints (the camo cans I have say they use the fusion paint in them ). The camo paint dries quickly and doesn't run if applied sparingly. I always top coat with a matte clear coat and find the Rustoleum brand better than the krylon brand, the krylon clear seems more likely to run no matter how sparingly I apply, just my experience using both brands.
I also place a shop light just above what I've painted to help the drying process.
Quote from: cherokeesteve on May 13, 2014, 06:51:10 PM
I have had good results with both krylon fusion and krylon camo spray paints (the camo cans I have say they use the fusion paint in them ). The camo paint dries quickly and doesn't run if applied sparingly. I always top coat with a matte clear coat and find the Rustoleum brand better than the krylon brand, the krylon clear seems more likely to run no matter how sparingly I apply, just my experience using both brands.
+1 on the fusion and the Rustoleum clear being a better product.
I spray painted the 2400kt I just got with krylon Italian olive. Put on a good coat and a second coat 24 hours later. didn't touch it for a couple days to let it cure. Washed it down with some 409, rinsed with hot water first. Turned out great. Holding up wonderfully.
http://shop.hobbylobby.com/products/krylon-italian-olive-indoor/outdoor-satin-spray-850115/ (http://shop.hobbylobby.com/products/krylon-italian-olive-indoor/outdoor-satin-spray-850115/)
I just got some Rust-Oleum Camo paint that indicates it "Bonds" to plastic. Directions say to coat w/i like and hour or wait 24hrs. It also says that it could take 5-7 days to bond to plastic. I painted mine Saturday and am not touching it till this Saturday. I'll let you know how it works out.
Plastics 101 for the potential painters out there...
The reason these parts are called plastic is their physical state, which is "plastic" meaning moveable, or pliable or, at the molecular level, the molecule chains are not rigid like steel, glass and ceramic.
So, this is the primary reason that many plastics are difficult to paint or coat. Also, some of the chemicals (monomers or polymers) and solvents used to make plastics react badly or poorly with certain paint chemicals and solvents. This is why some paints never seem to dry on plastic parts. They can't dry if the chemicals are leaching into the plastic and reacting.
Rustoleum and few other makers have come along way in the past few years with plastic coatings but, for parts that will get handled or touched (a lot) there is also the durability factor as well as the surface reflectivity factor (fancy words for "it looks dull or faded").
Several light/thin coats of matte or semi-gloss clear over your base color is the way to go but... be sure it is compatible with your base coat and the plastic underneath. Clear coats can attack base coats especially if they are sprayed on heavy or "wet" and... if they get through the base coat (very likely) they can also react with the plastic and ruin your whole paint job (and day).
I was just doing a camo job on a 2240 ffor the throw down and completely destroyed it when I applied the 2nd color. I used rustolemum tan for the base and figured a flat black for the 2nd color. I used Fusion which I had on hand and it turned into a runny mess. The two paints are not compatible, so don't do it! So much for the thrown down :(
The fusions are compatible with one another.
Also, there is high adhesion primer that is great to use on plastic that you do not want to scuff up to give it "tooth". A light spray of it dries totally in minutes and then is followed with the "color(s)", then the clear.
Quote from: arkmaker on May 14, 2014, 09:47:24 PM
I was just doing a camo job on a 2240 ffor the throw down and completely destroyed it when I applied the 2nd color. I used rustolemum tan for the base and figured a flat black for the 2nd color. I used Fusion which I had on hand and it turned into a runny mess. The two paints are not compatible, so don't do it! So much for the thrown down :(
Thanks so much for posting this. (Sorry it happened though) I put my base of Green Rust Oleum Camo on and was going to use Tan Camo and then Black Fusion on top. Guess I'll go get a black in the Rust-Camo.
Quote from: Davio on May 14, 2014, 09:53:21 PM
The fusions are compatible with one another.
He's talking 2 different brands - Krylon Fusion and Rust-O Camo for plastics. I would have thought they would work together......maybe not enough dry time between?
I know when I tried enamel over a laquer (or vice-versa) (both rattle can) on alum it made a real fancy krinkle finish.
Quote from: BigTinBoat on May 14, 2014, 10:04:15 PM
He's talking 2 different brands - Krylon Fusion and Rust-O Camo for plastics. I would have thought they would work together......maybe not enough dry time between?
I know when I tried enamel over a laquer (or vice-versa) (both rattle can) on alum it made a real fancy krinkle finish.
Yeah, I understood that arkmaker had compatibility problems with the two different brands he had on hand, but just added (not argued) that I KNOW the Fusion colors (both camo and other colors as well) are compatible with one another. :)
I will always stick with Rustolium paints for my projects, the camo paint line from them is excellent. Also very difficult to paint is aluminum so watch out for that one!
Quote from: Davio on May 14, 2014, 10:16:14 PM
Yeah, I understood that arkmaker had compatibility problems with the two different brands he had on hand, but just added (not argued) that I KNOW the Fusion colors (both camo and other colors as well) are compatible with one another. :)
Gotcha - since I started with the Rust-O, I'm picking up a can of Black Rust-O (and save the fusion for another job).
Good call on the aluminum BigErn, it needs thorough cleaning and quick (really quick) primer coating before it oxidizes.
The correct way to paint aluminum is to anodize or chem-film it prior to painting. Those processes seal the aluminum and prep it for paint. Bare aluminum is oxidizing as soon as it hits the atmosphere.
Quote from: BDS on May 14, 2014, 10:48:38 PM
Good call on the aluminum BigErn, it needs thorough cleaning and quick (really quick) primer coating before it oxidizes.
The correct way to paint aluminum is to anodize or chem-film it prior to painting. Those processes seal the aluminum and prep it for paint. Bare aluminum is oxidizing as soon as it hits the atmosphere.
Good explanation B, I've heard of people using vinegar on aluminum before painting but have never tried it.
Quote from: BDS on May 14, 2014, 10:48:38 PM
Good call on the aluminum BigErn, it needs thorough cleaning and quick (really quick) primer coating before it oxidizes.
The correct way to paint aluminum is to anodize or chem-film it prior to painting. Those processes seal the aluminum and prep it for paint. Bare aluminum is oxidizing as soon as it hits the atmosphere.
I use Self-Etching Primer(available at Wally World) when I paint the alum stuff on my boat. After a year no oxidation or paint coming off at all.
This thread has gone straight to aluminum! ;)
Sherwin Williams has a direct to metal DTM paint that is available in many many colors and it is very durable. Think what to paint the doors and trim around glass on a store front. Yeah, that stuff! :)
Quote from: BigTinBoat on May 14, 2014, 10:02:29 PM
Thanks so much for posting this. (Sorry it happened though) I put my base of Green Rust Oleum Camo on and was going to use Tan Camo and then Black Fusion on top. Guess I'll go get a black in the Rust-Camo.
That's exactly what I used, so don't do it!!! I should have ran up to the hardware store and bought the right stuff, but the last few times I've been up there, they were out of everything. Live and learn the hard way sometimes. At least I can salvage the metal parts and insides :-* The plastic is going in the trash :)
Quote from: BigTinBoat on May 15, 2014, 12:22:42 AM
I use Self-Etching Primer(available at Wally World) when I paint the alum stuff on my boat. After a year no oxidation or paint coming off at all.
I had good luck with zinc chromate for primer on several aluminum projects...
Quote from: Old Dog on May 15, 2014, 02:04:28 AM
I had good luck with zinc chromate for primer on several aluminum projects...
Zinc is good :-* Self etching primer will work on aluminum too. Great info here on painting plastic and aluminum 8)
So much for thinking that painting a few pieces of plastic was going to be quick and easy :o. I'm thinking, at this point, that I'm just going to buy a can of BLACK plastic compatible paint (either Krylon "Fusion" or Rustoleum "Paint for Plastic") and only paint the brown 760 (old school style) forearm. As I alluded to in the OP, "you can never go wrong with Basic Black". That section of a Crosman air gun is handled continuously when the gun is being used. I want the paint to really bond to the original surface and I definitely don't want to have any of the components end up in the dumpster. Lots of great info was presented and discussed. Thanks to all that responded (even the aluminum paintin' thread hijackers ;)). I guess the grip frame would fall into that category and could certainly be part of a air gun makeover. I'm not going to open THAT can of worms. That's it for now. Flex
Flex,
Just a thought also.. If you are going to go with black on plastics, you can always just use truck bedliner in a spray can. Not only does that stuff seem to bond to almost anything, it gives it a little bit of a "grippy" feeling. I've used it on multiple plastic items and it works very well. Multiple other people have used it with great success also. BigErn can attest to this, he has done quite a few items.
or...
http://stores.ebay.com/AlchemyAirWerks/_i.html?_nkw=glove&submit=Search&_sid=33525849 (http://stores.ebay.com/AlchemyAirWerks/_i.html?_nkw=glove&submit=Search&_sid=33525849)
Those tactical grip gloves are pretty nice... I may need a set.
Quote from: Davio on May 15, 2014, 05:36:36 AM
or...
http://stores.ebay.com/AlchemyAirWerks/_i.html?_nkw=glove&submit=Search&_sid=33525849 (http://stores.ebay.com/AlchemyAirWerks/_i.html?_nkw=glove&submit=Search&_sid=33525849)
Shameless Plug for Alchemy! :D
And I fully endorse it! :-* :-* :-*
Back to plastic painting - I used satin black rustoleum on my green forearm grip. I made sure to clean it really really well with windex, then alcohol prior to painting. The satin rustoleum is a really close match to the 1399 rear stock color
No issues in the past 3 years.
JMJ
Here's the problem with painting any gun, whether it's plastic, metal, or wood. Scuffs and chips will happen with use. Let's face it, we all ding our guns on stuff every once in a while. Then you have the black undercoating showing through whatever color of paint you used, and it looks bad. It's not easy to spot fill tarnished areas that have been spray painted unless you redo everything. I use primer, paint, and clear coat, and it will still peal off or chip and scratch. That's why I like camo patterns, because the blemishes don't show up very well against a camo pattern.
Quote from: JMJinNC on May 15, 2014, 05:12:41 PM
Back to plastic painting - I used satin black rustoleum on my green forearm grip. I made sure to clean it really really well with windex, then alcohol prior to painting. The satin rustoleum is a really close match to the 1399 rear stock color
No issues in the past 3 years.
JMJ
While what you did is pretty much what I intend to do with my brown 760 forearm grip, I imagine that there are more than a few folks out there that cringed in horror to read that you painted your green forearm grip from an old school BackPacker :o ! I'm guessing that you could have auctioned it on Ebay for way more that the $10.87 that a new black one goes for from Crosman. That's water over the dam at this point. Flex
When I built mine, the only forearm grip you could get from Crosman was the green one. Mine started life as a 1377 refurb, not a backpacker.
JMJ
I have had good luck with the fusion paint but as some said prep is key even a oily finger print can screw up the job. Be sure you rough up the surface so the paint sticks well read the directions some colors have different instructions. I think one you have to wait 24 hours before the next coat. In most cases i will heat up what ever i am painting with a hair dryer nice and warm not hot. Things like this will help you get a better finish. do a test on something else that's the same material it you can. Most of all don't rush it take your sweet time plan out the job how and where are you going to hang your parts ect. Good luck. BTW i only use fusion on plastic. I use the same paint as Big Ern on metal or duracoat and gunkote for metal.
Mike
Not sure if I should clear coat it, or with what clear but at least the "Camo" part is done on these....
Quote from: BigTinBoat on May 16, 2014, 08:41:03 PM
Not sure if I should clear coat it, or with what clear but at least the "Camo" part is done on these....
That came out great!!
Looking good !!! :-*
Quote from: Baltim0re28 on May 16, 2014, 10:32:54 PM
That came out great!!
Thanks - all I did was print a shadow grass pattern on paper from google and then have my wife cut it out (too intricate for me with x-acto). Then sprayed Green base coat. I then used black, then tan then earth brown.
I found some Krylon Clear that I just sprayed on lightly and it doesn't appear to be lifting or bubbling the paint. I'll do a couple more coats and let it dry a few days before handling.
Hopefully it will last on there.
Well the "satin" is just a bit on the shiny side (as you can see by the flash reflection), but after it gets hard a little steel wool should dull it a bit. I'm happy with the way it turned out.
looks awesome, came out great. let it sit the full cure time recommened, could be up to seven days.
Quote from: cherokeesteve on May 17, 2014, 02:26:31 AM
looks awesome, came out great. let it sit the full cure time recommened, could be up to seven days.
Thanks! I am going to let it sit for a week. Plus my TKO hasn't arrived yet, I'm waiting for that to sight it in.
That is an excellent job you did. :-* :-* :-*
I just did my pump arm for the 764 I put together I used matt black rust-oleum bumper and trim paint, you really have to look for the very slight mismatch between the 664 stock and 760 pump arm. :)
wait I think I will call it a 660 since I use the 66 reciever
Both of those projects came out great :-* :-*
Well, I thought I had this issue resolved but, alas, not quite. My local WalMart has a sizable selection of both Krylon and Rustoleum spray paints. However, they don't seem to have the colors that I'm wanting. They don't have the Krylon "Fusion" in black satin finish. (So there goes the simple "just paint the forestock" plan). Neither do they have much of a selection of Rustoleum "Paint for Plastic". The exceptions being the full "Camo" line and a white primer for plastic. Since I already have the full selection of the regular Rustoleum "Camo" line, I'm now thinking that I will get the Rustoleum plastic primer since the can states that once primed, plastic can be painted with any paint. (At least that's my perception of the labeling on the can). Has anyone painted over this product with regular spray paint? Flex
Looking good.
Quote from: Flex on June 04, 2014, 06:05:14 AM
Well, I thought I had this issue resolved but, alas, not quite. My local WalMart has a sizable selection of both Krylon and Rustoleum spray paints. However, they don't seem to have the colors that I'm wanting. They don't have the Krylon "Fusion" in black satin finish. (So there goes the simple "just paint the forestock" plan). Neither do they have much of a selection of Rustoleum "Paint for Plastic". The exceptions being the full "Camo" line and a white primer for plastic. Since I already have the full selection of the regular Rustoleum "Camo" line, I'm now thinking that I will get the Rustoleum plastic primer since the can states that once primed, plastic can be painted with any paint. (At least that's my perception of the labeling on the can). Has anyone painted over this product with regular spray paint? Flex
You need to branch out of Walmart and find the good stuff on-line or at Ace or HD or Lowes etc. Your perception is correct however, with rattle-can painting, you can't control the saturation of solvents or volatiles. This is what ruins plastic paint jobs. The plastic primer may claim to "seal" the plastic surface but it only takes a small amount of the follow on color coat volatiles to leach through the primer and bam, paint job is cr%p-ola. >:(
Simple process: a) Scuff plastic surfaces as needed, b) Wash plastics in hot water with DW detergent and brush, thorough rinse and VERY thorough dry, c) Apply plastic primer (regardless of "self-priming" claims on color coat cans) d) Let primer dry 24 hours, e) Paint parts with color coat (3 coats with dry in-between) total dry time 72 hours , f) Apply clear coat of choice and let dry 72 hours. :-*
This may seem a lengthy process but, I have parts that have been in service for years with no problems, including the initial finish being handled without any issues.
There are chemical reactions at work with all volatiles and polymers, monomers, etc. As my Chem. E. prof. once told me,
"if you don't follow the protocol, you are a Test Pilot, on you own, call me from the scene of the crash if you need help". :D ;D