Hi all,
On the plus side, it all ended with a working CCS carbine. Finally.
First purchase, a year ago, and it arrived with the barrel poking out of the box. It was returned, a new gun ordered, special instructions requesting extra packing material around the muzzle. This was ignored, but it arrived in good condition. Due to a couple bad health issues, I only revisited the carbine in late June of this year. It wouldn't hold co2. I posted a question, got a few answers, best consensus was to send it back under warranty to fix. (Problem: load powerlet, cock/shoot until poweret pierced. First powerlet gave me two shots with outgassing, second powerlet outgassed on puncture.)
Sent back for work. Took two and a half weeks, the customer reps were polite but never knew exactly what was going on. Tech services had the carbine, then QC, then couldn't verify if QC had it, then was told to call back for tracking number, then they could not find a trace of it at all, finally got tracking, carbine arrived. (All that took four calls and they finally emailed the track number.)
First issue: They figured I simply wasn't tightening the end cap enough to capture co2. MY fault entirely. However, it would have been nice to get a list of things to try before sending it in from the customer rep, to save all the time and aggravation. Still, my fault.
Second issue: I put foam on either side of the carbine, to keep the barrel from being damaged. Upon return, they flipped the carbine around so the barrel slammed into the box. Observe the pics. WTF?
Written on a piece of paper was the following: "Tip: Dry fire to pierce co2." Um, as opposed to what exactly?
So currently it is working, and more accurate than I am at the moment. However, the level of aggravation with never getting an accurate status and then the packing issue, well, I'll have to think long and hard about buying another Crosman. That level of, um, 'service' doesn't bode well.
Mole hill in my opinion...not so much of a mountain.
2.5 weeks turnaround sounds pretty amazing, considering it takes them over 3 weeks to even build an initial order.
Things get tossed around in the mail, as long as your barrel isnt bent, id say dont worry about it. I lost an entire barrel once...it poked a hole right through the box and slid out during shipping. Crosman sent a replacement right away, btw.
And 'dryfire to pierce' is on the instructions because some guns dont need to be dry fired for the co2 cart to be pierced. The 357/vigilante for example. The co2 cart is pierced once the knob is screwed in enough. First shot will shoot. The 22xx guns need 2 or 3 shots before the co2 is working properly.
I had a more satisfying experience...
My 2300kt was well packed, double boxed in fact. I was rather impressed with the egg crate foam, at the price level. It arrived shiny and spotless, and secure in its little cocoon. Well, not so little. The box was larger than I expected.
I've never called for repairs, or service, but I was pleased with the parts department.
I also managed to catch a percent off, free shipping event, I think it was 20%?
Yes, my CCS experience was very satisfactory.
I bet you will get years of satisfactory service from your new gun.
Quote from: woody67 on July 25, 2014, 02:04:02 AM
Mole hill in my opinion...not so much of a mountain.
2.5 weeks turnaround sounds pretty amazing, considering it takes them over 3 weeks to even build an initial order.
Things get tossed around in the mail, as long as your barrel isnt bent, id say dont worry about it. I lost an entire barrel once...it poked a hole right through the box and slid out during shipping. Crosman sent a replacement right away, btw.
And 'dryfire to pierce' is on the instructions because some guns dont need to be dry fired for the co2 cart to be pierced. The 357/vigilante for example. The co2 cart is pierced once the knob is screwed in enough. First shot will shoot. The 22xx guns need 2 or 3 shots before the co2 is working properly.
Oh I know I was more peeved than warranted, but I don't think the turnaround is 'pretty amazing', more average.
The barrel thing is more of an issue for me. The first shipment did mess it up, so when they ignored both a request, then ignored the padding I put in (and was one more good bang before the box went), well, I'm still trying to figure out how they came up with that choice.
Yes, that was my point, on the carbine they returned, it was necessary, so how could it be a tip?
Anyway, I am hoping this is an exception rather than the rule, too many companies are letting stuff slide.
Quote from: redpcx on July 25, 2014, 03:16:05 AM
I had a more satisfying experience...
My 2300kt was well packed, double boxed in fact. I was rather impressed with the egg crate foam, at the price level. It arrived shiny and spotless, and secure in its little cocoon. Well, not so little. The box was larger than I expected.
I've never called for repairs, or service, but I was pleased with the parts department.
I also managed to catch a percent off, free shipping event, I think it was 20%?
Yes, my CCS experience was very satisfactory.
I bet you will get years of satisfactory service from your new gun.
Mine was double boxed as well, the first shipment went through both boxes, which is why I made it a point of asking for more packing. Almost happened this last time as well. I've had numerous packages ruined by UPS, just trying to avoid it.
Glad to hear it worked out well for you, I'm hoping, should I ever order from them again, that this isn't the rule, but the exception.
Quote from: PestControl on July 25, 2014, 04:53:58 AM
Oh I know I was more peeved than warranted, but I don't think the turnaround is 'pretty amazing', more average.
The barrel thing is more of an issue for me. The first shipment did mess it up, so when they ignored both a request, then ignored the padding I put in (and was one more good bang before the box went), well, I'm still trying to figure out how they came up with that choice.
Yes, that was my point, on the carbine they returned, it was necessary, so how could it be a tip?
Anyway, I am hoping this is an exception rather than the rule, too many companies are letting stuff slide.
They definitely should secure the guns better before shipping. The foam padding is nice, but the guns are able to move if the boxes get thrown around...as you already know..
Calling the Crosman C.S. folks "stupid" in a thread subject like this is uncalled for IMO...
Would you like it if the Crosman customer service folks posted a thread subject on their forums called "Crosman Customers, a special kind of stupid" after they figured out that you had not tightened the co2 cap enough?
My experience with Crosman C.S. folks has always been good, even when they get confused or don't have the info that I need at their fingertips. They also put up with some real "informed" customers who don't know part numbers for 30 year old guns (even though the part numbers are listed in the Crosman library of manuals and diagrams on-line), who don't know the difference between an o-ring and a seal and who generally think that they are the only customer that Crosman and the USPS have. Try finding the level of service that Crosman provides or even a human being to answer the phone at the vast majority of other airgun makers. And none of those makers provides the archives of data and diagrams for nearly every gun they have made for the past 80 years like Crosman does.
they deal with lots of things and are human like you and i ---- you've never made a mistake or had a bad a day at work --- i know i have. stuff happens and it sucks when you're on the receiving end. CROSMAN will go out of their way to right a wrong but the people there might be like F___ it due to whatever, so, their customer service is excellent but the people they employ --- that's a different story .............
If this post was on the GTA, it would be locked up or deleted a long time ago. This is an air gun forum, not a soap box to hack venders. :(
If you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.
Quote from: mudduck48 on July 25, 2014, 04:03:24 PM
If this post was on the GTA, it would be locked up or deleted a long time ago. This is an air gun forum, not a soap box to hack venders. :(
If you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.
So much true ... if it was on the yellow you would ( at least ) get a time out ....
I agree with the poor packaging of the Custom Shop guns...both of my shipments had the barrel starting to poke a hole through the cardboard.
I also think I know the Custom Shop has poor quality control. I received one gun with a bad finish on the receiver and another with grips that didn't fit the frame. They took care of both problems but was aggravating to have to deal with simple things that could be easily seen and should have never been shipped out. If it wasn't for Crosman's good customer service to take care of poor QC I would not chance any more custom gun purchases.
Quote from: eric on July 25, 2014, 03:23:05 PM
they deal with lots of things and are human like you and i ---- you've never made a mistake or had a bad a day at work --- i know i have. stuff happens and it sucks when you're on the receiving end. CROSMAN will go out of their way to right a wrong but the people there might be like F___ it due to whatever, so, their customer service is excellent but the people they employ --- that's a different story .............
I think the above quote sums it up perfectly. I already mentioned I was more peeved than warranted, certainly having a bad day, but "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" is good advice for life in general, but to never mention bad or poor service, shoddy quality control, cutting corners, etc, that can occur by all sorts of manufacturers...? I would rather know the goods and bads, and filtering out the tempers I can get a reasonable estimate of how a company works.
Quote from: BDS on July 25, 2014, 02:55:27 PM
Calling the Crosman C.S. folks "stupid" in a thread subject like this is uncalled for IMO...
Would you like it if the Crosman customer service folks posted a thread subject on their forums called "Crosman Customers, a special kind of stupid" after they figured out that you had not tightened the co2 cap enough?
My experience with Crosman C.S. folks has always been good, even when they get confused or don't have the info that I need at their fingertips. They also put up with some real "informed" customers who don't know part numbers for 30 year old guns (even though the part numbers are listed in the Crosman library of manuals and diagrams on-line), who don't know the difference between an o-ring and a seal and who generally think that they are the only customer that Crosman and the USPS have. Try finding the level of service that Crosman provides or even a human being to answer the phone at the vast majority of other airgun makers. And none of those makers provides the archives of data and diagrams for nearly every gun they have made for the past 80 years like Crosman does.
Maybe 'clueless' would have been a better way to state it. I have no problem with Crosman posting a thread calling newbies stupid. I've already claimed responsibility for my own lack of knowledge.
I'm happy you haven't had any issues, really.
While I have not had any issues that required a Customer Service "intervention", I have nothing but THE BEST interaction with the individuals that I have been in contact with when I have questions or am ordering parts from Crosman. Perhaps I am lucky with who answers the phone when I call but I have absolutely NO ISSUES with any of my dealings with Customer Service at Crosman.
Attitude will always set the stage when making a customer service call and I have always tried to NOT put the CS rep on the defensive when I find myself in that type of situation. The bottom line is that THEY have ultimate control of the situation! You may not be happy with the situation that YOU are experiencing but it is unlikely that the person that you are speaking with actually caused the problem! Their job is to mediate the situation. If the problem is truly a fault of the company, it is their job to make it right at their expense. If the problem is a result of customer negligence or ignorance, it is their best interest to help remedy the situation BUT not necessarily at their expense! The mention of "mountains out of mole hills" should always be considered as very appropriate and should be considered prior to making demands of the Customer Service rep. Just sayin'. Flex
Crosman customer service is one of the best in the biz. Try gamo and see how far you get.
There are too many quotes for me to quote so I will just interject my thoughts.
Customer service levels vary greatly just by the people providing the "service". Go to a call center or customer service department and look at the people, whether its 10 or 500 there are 10 or 500 different personalities, attitudes, moods, stress levels, etc. Each individual will most likely approach the same scenario in a different way, the resolutions may given may be similar, worlds apart or not resolved at all.
If you want to get down to brass tacks, almost any job has some type of "customer service" related to it. It all boils down to how each half of the scenario acts. My last job was a call center for a large cell phone provider, we handled calls from billing to technical and had over 850 reps in that center alone. My call stats sucked, not because I didn't care but because I refused to adhere to the "acceptable stats" they implemented YEARS prior. They did not allow a rep to do what was needed to get a resolution to an issue. I was called into the supervisors office numerous time "to address my out of adherence stats". Long story short, after my ass was chewed on my response was the same..."tell me why the stat criteria can't be re-examined to provide better customer service for a growing customer base?". "Because" or "no" was the usual reply, I don't accept "because" or "no"!! In short, my stats did such and I should have been fired...why wasn't I? My calls checked by QA were 100%, my post-call surveys were always a 5 of 5, I de-escalated more calls than they had seen, I retained 10+ year customers calling in wanting to cancel service, I've had customers send me gifts of appreciation to the call center. Am I patting myself on the back or tooting my own horn? Hell yes!! I did customer service my way, not theirs! 600 seconds per call, only 30 seconds of hold time, placed on hold only twice, only one out-bound call to another department...bull$hit!! I had many calls over an hour, several spanned two hours and past my shift...I resolved issues instead of "adhering to stats" by telling the customer, "power cycle your phone and wait 24 hours, if you're still experiencing issues call back then"...this was noted in WAY TOO MANY ACCOUNTS!
Flip the coin now. My prescription meds are filled by mail thru my insurance. From day one it has been nothing but screwed up. Fills placed on a hold for "X" or "Y" reason, none warranted and obviously no concern that I received crucial meds before I ran out. High blood pressure, diabetes, COPD, asthma, genetic lung defect, not to mention needed meds for other serious issues...placed on hold for no viable reason. I've had to take anxiety medications after numerous calls. One call was escalated to a supervisor, I demanded OOP contact information...he deliberately and maliciously gave me a different number for customer service and an address to a warehouse!! Some, not many at all, of their reps have resolved any issues.
I could give real-life scenarios of good and bad for a long while, I'm not. I apologize for such a long post but I felt the need to give both sides of the coin. Excellent, good, bad or horrible customer service is what it is. I made the same mistake of bashing a vendor shortly after I joined CAPOF, I was corrected and with time to think it over my reprimand was justified. You may be totally pi$$ed but remember...there is always an appropriate time and place to say what's on your mind.
All that aside, welcome to CAPOF!!! I consider CAPOF my second family, I hope you will feel the same!
Crosman customer service is the best I have ever dealt with in over 60 years hands down. My latest problem had to do with one of their authorized repair places. 10 days before the warranty ran out my 1720t the gauge started leaking. I contacted the closest repair center to me to get it repaired. Communication was really slow in reply and finally I shipped it to them on 11-19-2013. After that crickets. Last monday I called Crosman and was put through to their head of customer service (very pleasant lady by the way). After explaining my problem she said she would get a hold of him and get my gun returned. She called me back today and told me if they don't hear from the guy by monday they will ship me a new 1720t and I will have it by the 14th of this month. I know of no other company that would do that.
Quote from: airriflenut on July 27, 2014, 10:47:36 PMThey did not allow a rep to do what was needed to get a resolution to an issue. I was called into the supervisors office numerous time "to address my out of adherence stats".Quote
Sterling, that is the most important factor - empowering the employee to resolve problems when they are first recognized. A truly customer-focused company will adequately train and empower the folks that are on the front line. And, they should'a fired your ass! for being effective.
Quote from: airriflenut on July 27, 2014, 10:47:36 PMMy prescription meds are filled by mail thru my insurance...Quote
Don't get me started on the insurance industry. Huge scumbags; awful customer service.
Ok, I have to chime in here. Some things I agree with PestControl on and some I don't. Regarding the packaging issue. Yes, I think Crosman fails there. They use these extra long one size fits all boxes, because you "could" be ordering a 24" barrel. Yet the gun is sitting loose in the box. No regard for extra packing measures for each unique gun which could easily be arranged. That explains why the packing guy, who slaps a hundred guns in boxes a day, was oblivious to the measures you put in place for them with the foam. To him, the gun looks nice and neat laying flat in the box. Do you think anyone from Crosman actually follows their packages to Fedex and watches the 18 y/o package handlers violently throwing the boxes around in the back of the truck because they hate their job? Crosman probably assumes the package floats on a bed of air all the way to your doorstep.
Second, I don't see how you couldn't screw the cap on tight enough. It doesn't require a super tight fit. Also, did you lube the end of it beforehand? If it was a user error you really should've been able to figure it out with the help of the guys here. We've been there done that when it comes to nearly every imaginable scenario. You just need to be patient and listen to what people tell you and try not to get flustered (which is not always easy).
Another thing, Crosman isn't set up like your typical company as far as "customer service" goes. They have a very specific way of doing things which for whatever reason they have chosen to do. Still don't know why the hell I have to call in and talk to somebody to order parts, in this day and age of computers and websites. But once you get caught up in their system, which is not designed to do anything other than the status quo day after day, then yes, the people you speak to are going to come across as inept. Their whole mindset is "make airgun, ship it, make money". They aren't good at fielding questions and looking into personal queries for you.
And this was PestControl last post. He couldn't take the heat. Everyone told him not to bash the venders and he ran away. The bottom line,IMO, is, think before you post. We are all just human and we Duck up from time to time. Communication works pretty good some times. ;)
Quote from: mudduck48 on July 27, 2015, 05:09:30 AM
And this was PestControl last post. He couldn't take the heat. Everyone told him not to bash the venders and he ran away. The bottom line,IMO, is, think before you post. We are all just human and we Duck up from time to time. Communication works pretty good some times. ;)
I just read the entire thread and those "issues" there arent really ISSUES persay.