my original topic and what was done.
Added a FTP and valve and a Mellen air extended probe bolt.
Shots were taken starting at 1 pump and moving to 10 and I did one set at 12. Results are the average of the 5 shot group.
Before After
1. 148fps 226
2. 249fps 288
3. 299fps 331
4. 344fps 363
5. 380fps 395
6. 409fps 413
7. 432fps 440
8. 454fps 471
9. 467fps 507
10. 485fps 531
12. 513fps 548
18 pumps first shot was 479fps second shot without pumping 457fps after the second shot the pressure zeroed out so it is having a hard time dumping more than 12 pumps and after that the residual pressure is enough to shut the valve while still holding on to air.
I was expecting more increase but haven't done any other mods other than what is listed. What is next? I am thinking heavier hammer spring and a transfer port mod. Am I correct in thinking this or should I go down a different road.
I'd replace the probe with a longer pin probe first and take it from there, step by step stopping once you are happy and that could be by replacing the probe only....
Perhaps a little bit of work on the transfer port would get some more air out of the valve and pushing the pellet. But don't go radical on that work, because unless you have some spare parts it is hard to go backward.
I think you can open it up to 5/32" or ~0.156. I'll have to look up what size I used to drill mine.
Carl
I used a #22 drill bit to drill my transfer ports.
#23 0.154"
5/32 0.1562"
#22 0.157"
Quote from: Brutuz on February 22, 2016, 11:48:10 PM
I'd replace the probe with a longer pin probe first and take it from there, step by step stopping once you are happy and that could be by replacing the probe only....
was already done today. (http://i.imgur.com/GE0IYgj.jpg?1)
Quote from: quickster47 on February 23, 2016, 12:01:07 AM
Perhaps a little bit of work on the transfer port would get some more air out of the valve and pushing the pellet. But don't go radical on that work, because unless you have some spare parts it is hard to go backward.
I think you can open it up to 5/32" or ~0.156. I'll have to look up what size I used to drill mine.
Carl
I used a #22 drill bit to drill my transfer ports.
#23 0.154"
5/32 0.1562"
#22 0.157"
Open them up and use the ice line as a seal or did you re use the metal port
This is what was installed today.
Here are the two bolts side by side.
(http://i.imgur.com/GE0IYgj.jpg?1)
The new parts
(http://i.imgur.com/n2bcjTI.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/i6eDCeL.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/amdX8Ms.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/2ECQQKc.jpg?1)
The hammer was cleaned and polished before it was installed
(http://i.imgur.com/mBzj7Dd.jpg?1)
I wanted to clean the ridges and burrs off of them before installing the new parts. I started by taking the tube and sanding it with 180 grit sandpaper , then went to 400 , 800, 1000, 2000 to get a mirror finish on the inside. Then using a dremel tool I cleaned all the edges up and softened all the areas where they were punched out.
Here is the inside of the tube now.
(http://i.imgur.com/e1iUNlv.jpg?1)
.
(http://i.imgur.com/VD5mfVh.jpg?1)
Quote from: Flattitude on February 23, 2016, 01:14:35 AM
Open them up and use the ice line as a seal or did you re use the metal port
I would drill and use the OEM transfer port as a first step. If that shows some good gains then you might want to consider the old ice maker water line port mod.
Carl
Quote from: quickster47 on February 23, 2016, 01:33:20 AM
I would drill and use the OEM transfer port as a first step. If that shows some good gains then you might want to consider the old ice maker water line port mod.
Carl
You could get one of Daivo's BOSS BUDDY" High Flow Transfer Port !! They are well worth the price !! :-*
Quote from: Trophyhunter49 on February 23, 2016, 01:42:22 AM
You could get one of Daivo's BOSS BUDDY" High Flow Transfer Port !! They are well worth the price !! :-*
How much are they? I could look it up but figured you would know off hand? ???
Quote from: Noah on February 23, 2016, 01:52:34 AM
How much are they? I could look it up but figured you would know off hand? ???
Noah they are $10.88 on eBay but if you contact Davio by PM I think he gives CAPOF members a discount.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Boss-Buddy-25-Flow-Better-Sealing-Transfer-Port-for-Crosman-2240-2250-1322-etc/291350379304?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35694%26meid%3D1fe172533f2741c5b30885b269d6e125%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D301410508288 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Boss-Buddy-25-Flow-Better-Sealing-Transfer-Port-for-Crosman-2240-2250-1322-etc/291350379304?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35694%26meid%3D1fe172533f2741c5b30885b269d6e125%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D301410508288)
Carl
Of course I could be wrong about this listing being one of Davio's.
Quote from: quickster47 on February 23, 2016, 02:12:38 AM
Noah they are $10.88 on eBay but if you contact Davio by PM I think he gives CAPOF members a discount.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Boss-Buddy-25-Flow-Better-Sealing-Transfer-Port-for-Crosman-2240-2250-1322-etc/291350379304?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35694%26meid%3D1fe172533f2741c5b30885b269d6e125%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D301410508288 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Boss-Buddy-25-Flow-Better-Sealing-Transfer-Port-for-Crosman-2240-2250-1322-etc/291350379304?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35694%26meid%3D1fe172533f2741c5b30885b269d6e125%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D301410508288)
Carl
Of course I could be wrong about this listing being one of Davio's.
Yea thats one of Davio's!!
PM him for the parts you want. He is really busy, but he will get back to you. :) Or go to his web site.
http://www.alchemyairwerks.com/ (http://www.alchemyairwerks.com/)
You're well on your way to optimizing performance :-*
Although I'm not building these anymore I have built a few in the past and see a few more things you can do - but don't feel like you have to do everything...right away that is.
getting a little more out of the valve: shaped m-rod valve stem, softer valve spring, headspace reduction check valve and flycut valve face to 020":
(http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh508/WyoMan/1322MOA/2ndTry/valve1_zpsnugskzxf.jpg) (http://s1249.photobucket.com/user/WyoMan/media/1322MOA/2ndTry/valve1_zpsnugskzxf.jpg.html)
reinforce the valve and pivot for high pressure: pin the valve under the breech and add screw reinforcement to the barrel band:
(http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh508/WyoMan/1322MOA/2ndTry/valvepin2_zpst9kcjseg.jpg) (http://s1249.photobucket.com/user/WyoMan/media/1322MOA/2ndTry/valvepin2_zpst9kcjseg.jpg.html)
(http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh508/WyoMan/1322MOA/2ndTry/sight_zpsuohdoffj.jpg) (http://s1249.photobucket.com/user/WyoMan/media/1322MOA/2ndTry/sight_zpsuohdoffj.jpg.html)
the hammer spring can use some help but stay with the oem (with thin coat of moly):
(http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh508/WyoMan/1322MOA/2ndTry/hammerspring_zps5vbcy4m8.jpg) (http://s1249.photobucket.com/user/WyoMan/media/1322MOA/2ndTry/hammerspring_zps5vbcy4m8.jpg.html)
I second the advice given on the transfer port. .156" to .160" is plenty for the .22 cal and using oem or Davio's is better than icemaker tubing....hth
Not to hijack, but great to see you posting WyoMan. Your knowledge and experience is always helpful.
Davios Boss Buddy is a good transfer port especially if you don't feel comfortable drilling out you own. (like me)
"Pinning" your valve is good for FPS and wear on your gun. See Wyomans write up. It's a "should do" IMO.
Davio has the nicest "solid pins" for your pump arm. This makes adjusting you piston easy. You might also want Mellons reinforcing ring and spacer to firm up the pump arm. You could also use his rear power adjuster to make the hammer spring hit the valve harder (when you want it to) to expel more air. (you probably won't be pumping over 12 pumps 90% of the time & there fore really don't need a stronger spring for ea. shot) Changing spring inside the valve is also an option.
Lots to play with on this little gun...Have fun. :)
Quote from: Tater on February 23, 2016, 03:47:43 AM
Not to hijack, but great to see you posting WyoMan. Your knowledge and experience is always helpful.
:-* :-*
Quote from: Trophyhunter49 on February 23, 2016, 02:24:19 AM
Yea thats one of Davio's!!
How much increase in FPS do you think this will add? I'm sure there is a thread about that, too ??? :o
Is that a spring guide on the hammer spring I see there? Whats it made of
Definitely read wyo's sticky in the pumper board. if you use a disco spring a power adjuster(rva) and softer valve spring won't be needed.
If you got the valve from Mellon he only opens up the exhaust port, softening the 90`degree angle helps airflow. It's easily done with a rotary tool with a ball cutting bit. Take care not to knick seat inside.
accustoms modded the check valve so a light valve spring wasn't needed and it made pumping easier. If I find the pic ill post it here
Quote from: jSan22 on February 23, 2016, 05:31:22 AM
Is that a spring guide on the hammer spring I see there? Whats it made of
Yes, a spring guide. I can't find my notes for some reason but found an old post...
http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/message/1434418013/spring+stuff... (http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/message/1434418013/spring+stuff...)
Quote from: Noah on February 23, 2016, 04:24:11 AM
How much increase in FPS do you think this will add? I'm sure there is a thread about that, too ??? :o
Noah , I really don't know about the FPS ! I do know that it helps and the way Davio has made them you will not get any air leaks with it! It's a steel ( I think it's stainless ) tube and the rubber sleeve seals at both ends ! I have them in ALL my guns that don't have a breech riser. Had I said before they are well worth the money !
Quote from: Noah on February 23, 2016, 04:24:11 AM
How much increase in FPS do you think this will add? I'm sure there is a thread about that, too ??? :o
Noah, I ran 150 pellets through one of my basically box stock 2240s and recorded each shot. I then changed out the transfer port with one that I just modded this morning, it was opened up to an ID of 0.157" - #22 drill bit - and the insides of the port polished. I then ran another 150 pellets through the gun. And the results are, the envelope please!
I could really tell no difference in FPS. I think that transfer port mod works well when you have made some modifications to the valve but when it is stock, no big significant gains. I think the valve and port are pretty well matched from the factory. The other thing was I did not lose any FPS either and that was a good thing.
I may make a post with all the results but right now I'm holding off because of the disappointing results.
Carl
Quote from: quickster47 on February 23, 2016, 09:25:32 PM
Noah, I ran 150 pellets through one of my basically box stock 2240s and recorded each shot. I then changed out the transfer port with one that I just modded this morning, it was opened up to an ID of 0.157" - #22 drill bit - and the insides of the port polished. I then ran another 150 pellets through the gun. And the results are, the envelope please!
I could really tell no difference in FPS. I think that transfer port mod works well when you have made some modifications to the valve but when it is stock, no big significant gains. I think the valve and port are pretty well matched from the factory. The other thing was I did not lose any FPS either and that was a good thing.
I may make a post with all the results but right now I'm holding off because of the disappointing results.
Carl
Thanks, Carl, for the research and report. I/we really thank you for your time and efforts. :-*
Like you, I am surprised that the enlarged port does NOT result in more fps - very surprising and yes, disappointing. :(
Wow thanks for the info. For starters the valve and piston were from Alchemy Airwerks. Very fast and appears good quality. I don't know how much the valve has been modified if any at all. This is the valve and piston I ordered.
http://www.alchemyairwerks.com/store/p126/PUMPER_POWER_COMBO_-_FLAT_TOP_HIGHT_PERFORMANCE_VALVE___ADJUSTABLE__PISTON_DONE_RIGHT.html (http://www.alchemyairwerks.com/store/p126/PUMPER_POWER_COMBO_-_FLAT_TOP_HIGHT_PERFORMANCE_VALVE___ADJUSTABLE__PISTON_DONE_RIGHT.html)
I also did a Mellen extended probe.
The transfer port was going to be next as well as a stronger hammer spring. If I could mod the valve more I would consider it. I have been here for a few weeks and honestly I have read till my eyes were crossed and still feel like I just scratched the surface. It seems like there are so many mods to do that I don't want to just start doing them just to say I did but if they have real value which I am sure they all do I would like to do them.
Pinning the valve is another one I have heard of and have a few links to threads but there are many. I have no problem following instructions but I have a hard time going off board to figure them out. I have been trying to bookmark as many links as I can but finding them using the search usually brings a couple hundred threads to weed through.
I appreciate the help and look forward to discussing it further.
It can be overwhelming for awhile but we all started the same way. I can still remember not knowing what a "valve" was...the airgun jargon doesn't help either.
Just enjoy it, shoot it, get to know it better and do more if/when you want. You're much further along than most would be after a few weeks...
More reading (guess I'll plug my own posts) - go to "Technical - pump pistols" and read "Building a pumper power plant"
I would like to talk you out of the stronger hammer spring. If you need to do something then try shimming the back of the hammer with some small washers (if you can't get a hammer spring guide that is). The stronger hammer spring is more wear and tear and affects (badly) the trigger pull and cocking effort.
A lighter valve spring will also help :-*
The spring tuning of airguns is something that everyone is still learning - and I mean everyone!
Quote from: WyoMan on February 24, 2016, 02:43:07 AM
It can be overwhelming for awhile but we all started the same way. I can still remember not knowing what a "valve" was...the airgun jargon doesn't help either.
Just enjoy it, shoot it, get to know it better and do more if/when you want. You're much further along than most would be after a few weeks...
More reading (guess I'll plug my own posts) - go to "Technical - pump pistols" and read "Building a pumper power plant"
I would like to talk you out of the stronger hammer spring. If you need to do something then try shimming the back of the hammer with some small washers (if you can't get a hammer spring guide that is). The stronger hammer spring is more wear and tear and affects (badly) the trigger pull and cocking effort.
A lighter valve spring will also help :-*
The spring tuning of airguns is something that everyone is still learning - and I mean everyone!
Ok I will switch my search to a lighter valve spring. Looks like I have more reading to do . Thanks again Wyo.
Quote from: WyoMan on February 24, 2016, 02:43:07 AM
A lighter valve spring will also help :-*
The spring tuning of airguns is something that everyone is still learning - and I mean everyone!
Springs in airguns still remains a mystery. You think you learn one thing, understand it a bit and then wham, someone throws water all over your new found knowledge and you start over. Sort of... ???
Springs in airguns cause you to bounce all around. :D
Carl