Crosman Air Pistol Owners Forum

Just purchased a sick 2240 from a young man on the GTA. He tried his hand at porting the valve and now has issues. Don't know what to expect, will arrive Wednesday. I have a spare stock Disco valve. Will either half interchange with the stock 2240 valve? If not, a call to Crosman may be needed unless he has transfer port problems, fingers crossed. I do believe he did some grinding where he shouldn't have.

Good luck, but that sure is the good thing about these guns. Mess something up and it only cost a bit to fix it!

Make sure you let us know if there's anything or any parts we might can help you with.  Most of us have some spares that we can spare for a while.

Carl

Quote from: quickster47 on February 01, 2011, 03:31:23 AM
Make sure you let us know if there's anything or any parts we might can help you with.  Most of us have some spares that we can spare for a while.

Carl

Will do, and thank you. If my Blue Fork trigger frame doesn't show soon I may rob the frame from this piece for my .25 cal project.

Quote from: quickster47 on February 01, 2011, 03:31:23 AM
Make sure you let us know if there's anything or any parts we might can help you with.  Most of us have some spares that we can spare for a while.

Carl

The sick little 2240 arrived and I began administering first aid.The transfer port rubber seal was on the bottom of the air tube in the spare tube hole. The 2240 is drilled and tapped in two locations for both new and old breech screw and has two holes underneath for the valve. The valve was fine and suffered no serious damage from the previous surgeon.

I carried the valve to work today along with a Discovery valve that had been ported by B&A. I placed it on a sine bar, stuck a .157 gauge pin in the hole and adjusted the bar until the pin was vertical. Looked to be 18 degrees. I removed the Disco valve, placed the 2240 valve in a vee-block perched on the sine bar, and chucked up a .157 end mill. After applying a dab of red Dykem around the existing hole the end mill was carefully eye balled  into position. After cutting the port I cleaned out the chips and any burrs and inspected with my loup. Everything looked super so operation one was a success. Off we go to the lathe for some volume increasing and Brass end cap making. 

  Back at home all is reassembled and a powerlett is inserted. Now the moment of truth. With the Chrony in position the first Hobby pellet reaches 475 fps. This is the first pistol that I thought was loud, almost went for my ear plugs. maybe its the short barrel, 7.5 inch. I could see exhaust exit the muzzle.

  All seems fine to me but I see a steel breech and longer barrel for it some where down the road. So, any of you have something like that collecting dust and don't want an arm and leg for, give a shout. This will be a fun little piece to plink around with but I don't think I can hit anything with it with the stock sight that it has now.

Anyone have Chrony numbers from a complete stock gun? Crosman list "up to 460 fps", which we all know is meaningless. With this one averaging 475-480 I think my valve job had to a helped, just don't know how much. I'm thinking around a 12 inche barrel would put it in the 525-500 range.

Only thing I can say is that I love to keep a box stock 2240 around.  It sort of gives you a real appreciation for Crosman's best selling basic gun that can be modified to your heart's content.  And yes, that 7.5" barrel makes it loud and let's you know when she gets a shot off.

Keep it stock for awhile before you do any more mods.  Heck, you might end up like me and liking it that way.

Carl

Here is some data from my box stock 2240 shooting 14.3 grain CPDomed pellets.  This was a string of 50 shots.  I shot till the cartridge was drained. and that is the reason for the large SD.

   FPS   FPE
Min =   166.00   0.88
Max =   392.00   4.88
Mean =   350.68   4.01
Median=   374.50   4.45
Mode=   373.00   4.42
Hi Lo Spread =   226.00   4.01
Std Deviation =   56.95   1.08

   Yes, as Carl stated they are loud in stock form. I have a 10" barrel, I cut and crowned, you may want to give it a better crown, but it shoots straight as is. PM me, and we will work out the details. Nice job on the valve by the way.

Casey

Quote from: mr007s on February 04, 2011, 02:12:43 AM


Anyone have Chrony numbers from a complete stock gun? Crosman list "up to 460 fps", which we all know is meaningless. With this one averaging 475-480 I think my valve job had to a helped, just don't know how much. I'm thinking around a 12 inche barrel would put it in the 525-500 range.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6jjGoWTrjo#ws]2 full strings using the standard Crosman probe[/url]

Quote from: Rualert on February 04, 2011, 10:16:08 PM
   Yes, as Carl stated they are loud in stock form. I have a 10" barrel, I cut and crowned, you may want to give it a better crown, but it shoots straight as is. PM me, and we will work out the details. Nice job on the valve by the way.

Casey

Thanks for the offer Casey! With the troubles I had today I probably won't be doing any more work on the 2240 for a long time! I was thinking a 12" or 12 1/2" barrel but need to cool down some and think about it some more.

     No worries, just ping me if you decide that you need it. Who knows I may end up using it in yet another build too.  ;)

We never know with these fine Crosman pieces. We build one, customize it, change this, or that, have some left overs, then buy more parts, next thing you know, we are building yet another. and the addiction goes on and on....

:D :D :D :D

Casey

P.S. I have a large cache of parts on standby I'm getting ready to buy, haven't decided what I'm going to build next.

Quote from: Rualert on February 09, 2011, 11:40:42 PM
We never know with these fine Crosman pieces. We build one, customize it, change this, or that, have some left overs, then buy more parts, next thing you know, we are building yet another. and the addiction goes on and on....

:D :D :D :D

Casey

P.S. I have a large cache of parts on standby I'm getting ready to buy, haven't decided what I'm going to build next.

As Casey sort of said, "You can never have too much memory, too much money, be too skinny, or have too many Crosman parts lying around in your spares box.  ;D ;D ;D

Carl

Quote from: quickster47 on February 09, 2011, 11:58:39 PM
be too skinny

Carl

as a chef I cant say I am of the skinny persuasion, its a job thingy ;) for the rest I completely agree.

Quote from: Oane on February 10, 2011, 08:45:22 AM
as a chef I cant say I am of the skinny persuasion, its a job thingy ;) for the rest I completely agree.

I really must agree with you on that one because what you cook I will definitely eat.  God did not make a food that I don't like.

Carl

God would wish he could eat the food I am cooking right now, its wild goose legs confit, slow boiled in its own fat for 10 hours until extremely tender :-\

Quote from: Oane on February 10, 2011, 06:48:42 PM
God would wish he could eat the food I am cooking right now, its wild goose legs confit, slow boiled in its own fat for 10 hours until extremely tender :-\

Oh Baby!!! That goose sound great!  :-*  I miss hunting Pheasant. The only way to eat it is to hunt it and then of course you need a good cook. Can;t say much good about the exwife except that she was an excellent cook. Hell, I would weigh 400lbs by now if she had kept me around  ;D Man oh man, could she cook pheasant!
Rich

hmm pheasant! we made pork belly and pheasant sausages at work today! and those where a treat! damn I must have gotten the best job there is :) what did your ex do with the pheasant?

I wish I had paid attention. It did take a long time though, like 5-6 hours for her to prepare. Her brother also made something I should have learned to do as well. We went hunting and camping one time and he shot about a dozen doves. That night he dressed and seasoned them. Then he dug up some clay and wrapped each one individually. Next he dug tunnels at an angle that went right under our campfire. Rolled the clay balls in and covered them up. In the morning I had the best breakfast I ever had! That was 25 years ago and I still remember it like yesterday. What I never caught was his seasoning. My ex's family is Micmac indian and always had simple ways to make things taste awesome!
Rich

if anything you just made me curios and hungry ;)

Quote from: arkmaker on February 10, 2011, 09:57:23 PM
.......Then he dug up some clay and wrapped each one individually. Next he dug tunnels at an angle that went right under our campfire. Rolled the clay balls in and covered them up.
Rich

OT
Rich, do you get Ray Mears on TV on your side of the pond? He did a series, I think it was called Wild Britain.
Anywho, he does exactly the same style of cooking as what you described bar the seasoning... very cool.

Sorry returning thread to former topic and owner ........  :-*

Quote from: NorthStaR on February 11, 2011, 02:38:04 PM
Sorry returning thread to former topic and owner ........  :-*

Yes, I apoligize 007. How is that sick puppy comming along?

No apology necessary, I like pheasant and quail too, and have been known to do my own cooking :P

As for the sick 2240, she is recovering very nicely. PA has back ordered my B-Square mount for the Hawke Red Dot. Soon as it arrives and gets mounted I plan to post a pic or two. The muzzle brake I mentioned is done and looks sweet on her. Stay tuned, pics will be posted of a revived young lady

Quote from: mr007s on February 12, 2011, 02:11:01 AM
The muzzle brake I mentioned is done and looks sweet on her. Stay tuned, pics will be posted of a revived young lady

Could not find where you mentioned anything about a muzzle brake so give us some more information on it and what you have planned.

Carl

Purchased a TAPCO - SKS Yugo Muzzle Brake for 10 bucks from Natchez. Adapted it to fit the 2240 barrel and added two set screws. Polished the outer diameter and left the recesses black. Adds a very nice look to the little darling.

Sorry for starting all this food talk, its just my biggest passion, although crosmans are creeping up.

glad to hear you sick baby i recovering, would love to see some pick if she is done.

I have some numbers to share from this 2240. But first let me add that I wanted to post this in a different thread. After a lengthy search I gave up and came here. I know there is a thread to post your mods and the results. Maybe it was for the 1377, I can't remember. If there is a better place for this info I request this post be moved there so future viewers will have better access. With that said let me move along.

This 2240 wasn't chronyed by me when stock. I received it in an non-shootable condition.
It has the following light mods:

The barrel is stock and 7.5 inches long
Trigger spring swapped for a lighter one from Ace
Stock valve spring out, Ace spring in measuring .031" wire by 1.5 inch long
Valve exhaust port enlarged to .159" and ported on 18 degree angle
3 threads removed from valve end and recess milled out 1/4" deeper to increase volume
Extended probe from Don Cothran installed
Stock hammer spring replaced with a Discovery spring

Below is a chart of a three shot string of 10 shots each. Shot outside today, temp was mid 60's. Muzzle 3 feet back and shots fired as I casually loaded. no waiting between rounds. Pellets used were Crosman Premire Domed 14.3 grain.







In the next few days I plan to switch over to a 10 inch barrel in .177. I will replace the light valve spring with a .039" x 1 inch long and add a SS transfer port of my own making.
Stock transfer port. I may add a HDD while I have it apart, undecided on this at the moment.

So FPS dropped 35 over a 30 shot string? That doesn't seem to bad. I will be looking for the results with the 10" barrel. After looking at Carls data using the HDD I think you would get an increase in shot count and a longer flater curve.
RIch

The 10 " barrel is .177 and I am going back to the stronger valve spring so I don't the results from that will have much in common with this report. I do have a 10 and a 12 inch barrel coming that can be tried also latter on for a comparassion. I am doing the two piece barrel mod for this shooter that has been discussed for the easy barrel change.

I just finished crowning and polishing the loading port of a 10" .177 barrel today. I am making my 2240 into a 1740 (is that the correct terminology?) as well. I want to make this my monthly target competetion shooter, but the 7.5" barrel was way to loud for my backyard. I am hoping that this will quiet it down a hair along with the new LCD I am building to go with it. Also looking to trade my CB breech for a Crosman steel breech so that I can use the HDD and increase shot count.

All in all we are on the same path, sort of  :-* I don;t have a chrony yet, but it will have to wait as I have been made an offer I can't refuse and need to save cash to make it a reality..

Rich

Sounds about right Rich or maybe a 2300  ??? 
                        Mike

007 your numbers look good and what I would consider average for a 2240 in mostly stock condition.  I have heard that some folks get 450 fps out of a box-stock 2240 but they also never publish what pellet they are shooting or show their results.  Just the one or two numbers.  I guess 450 fps might be possible on a 90 degree spring day in Floriduh.

Two of my favorite target shooters are CCS 2300KTs (the basic 2240) that I converted to .177 with LW 10.1" barrels.  I now call them 1740s and think that is the correct nomenclature.  The one gun I ordered from the CCS with a 10.1" LW barrel was also called a 2300KT so that designation fails because it is a 2300KT whether it be .22 or .177.

I also installed a HDD on one of my target pistols and thus far I cannot say that I've seen a dramatic increase in the number of shots with it.  But it also has a lightened hammer and a few other things so maybe it doesn't help in that case.  I've heard from Steve that the HDDs do the best on modded 22XX guns.

Anyway, keep up the good work and post your updates for the next phase of this one.

Carl

I had previously recorded higher numbers using Hobby Pellets and a poly tube TP. My hope is to transform this piece into strictly a shooter for the monthly comps. I have been doing several classes here and a few on the GTA site. It seems as though I am constantly sighting in and adjusting for the different distances and chosen pellets. I would like one to be set up for each competition and eliminate the constant zeroing. The two pumpers are set and both will return good consistent scores. With the addition of this next CO2 shooter I believe I will be set, if it has the accuracy I am looking for. Kinda wish I hadn't enlarged the valve and just ported it. I don't think I need all that velocity, just good shot count and steady numbers with low SD. I am thinking of turning a piece of brass to stick back in to bring the capacity of the valve back closer to stock, or just getting a stock valve to put back in it.

I would keep that valve for some future project and just get a couple of stock valves from Crosman.  It's always good to have a spare valve or two hanging around.

Carl

Quote from: Oane on February 10, 2011, 06:48:42 PM
God would wish he could eat the food I am cooking right now, its wild goose legs confit, slow boiled in its own fat for 10 hours until extremely tender :-\

Oh...man!

I am always too tired after cooking duck for guests to save the fat. I've been wanting very badly to do a pheasant leg confit. That or just fry potatoes in the fat at a later date. :D

I like the way you think, Oane. :)

The once sick 2240 became a well healed 1740 today, at least temporarily. You can read about the mods preformed here, reply 14: http://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php?topic=2914.msg27069#msg27069 (http://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php?topic=2914.msg27069#msg27069)

I did replace the valve spring with a heavier one and elongated the barrel TP opening to .157 X .187.
The probe used remained a DC extended one I had as a spare. This barrel is a 10 incher.

The Chrony chart below reflects 4 ten shot strings. Ammo used was Crosman Premire Hollow Points, 7.9 grain. You can see that after about shot 30, things go down hill fast. Still haven't decided if I will replace the valve with a stock one or if it will stay .177. One thing for sure, it is much quieter now

Wow, really lloks like 30 good consistant shots! I'll be adding my 10" barrel tonight if the stock transfer port is the same, otherwise I will have to wait until I can open up the barrel end a bit. I'm going with the stock valve, no mods for now. I should end up very close to you with a few FPS less due to your  opened up transfer port.
Rich

Quote from: arkmaker on March 04, 2011, 12:27:49 AM
Wow, really looks like 30 good consistent shots! I'll be adding my 10" barrel tonight if the stock transfer port is the same, otherwise I will have to wait until I can open up the barrel end a bit. I'm going with the stock valve, no mods for now. I should end up very close to you with a few FPS less due to your  opened up transfer port.
Rich

I will wait on a valve swap until your results are posted. Will be interesting to compare them. I just noticed the pellet wasn't listed. I will go back and add that info.

The goal for this piece is to turn it into a nice paper puncher for the comps and have a high shot count. I am not pleased with a 30 shot count so I made a change. The 2 piece .177 barrel will be retained because I want a .177 C02 to be a little brother to the 2300KT. I realize that CO2 is more efficient with .22 cal and I accept that part of the equation.
  The modified valve was replaced with a stock one, only porting the exhaust for better air flow. All stock springs were utilized and a SS enlarged TP was installed. I had a home-made HDD that was affixed as well.
With the modified valve a good bit of exhaust could be seen from the muzzle, not so now and the report is noticeably quieter. I was able to get five 10 shot strings before velocity got below an acceptable level First shot registered 547 fps and last shot was 499. By shot 55 the fps was down to 429.

here are some comparisons of the before and after results

modified valve:String 1 avg.552  S2avg.534  S3avg.522
Stock    valve:String 1 avg.541  S2avg.534  S3avg.527  S4avg.517  S5avg.508


My thoughts are in comparing the two test is that the modified valve was wasting gas with the 10 inch barrel. The stock valve gave the same results, or better and a higher shot count.

Where do I go from here? I could move to to a 12 inch barrel which I would rather not. The 10" has a nice balance. Maybe try a lighter hammer spring or install a spacer in the valve to reduce volume. I probably don't need 540 fps for paper and am thinking around 450-475. Anyone want to offer suggestions as to how I can de-tune down about 100fps?

Thanks for any insight here.

Well, maybe you need to stop modding the valves at all! Since the valve is open during the entire discharge phase, improving flow through the transfer port should also increase the amount of CO₂ leaving the reservoir.

Something else to try is the volume reducer from the 2300 valve. It's a little brass bushing that slips inside the valve, reducing the ID of the valve. I'm pretty sure the 2300 valve is the same as the 2240 otherwise.

My 2300S' average around 500 fps @ 65 F (.177, RSB Xact) with valves modded only for bulking--B&A fronts and cut-off piercing pins. Stock springs, etc. Since the guns are tube-bulked, shot counts would be meaningless here, but I still do get some visible exhaust from the muzzles.

Timm

To be the most efficient and power producing My thought would be that you would still want to open the valve as fast and hard as possible.  I would consider trying the modified valve with heavy spring to accomplish that, I would also, as gunhippie suggested, use a volume reducer. but still get the most out of the co2 you are using.

Then again  Iââ,¬â,,¢m not to smart.

Personally, I think I would go back to a completely stock valve and maybe add the HDD and valve spacer to get your shot count up.  I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the power the OEM valve delivers.  Especially if you are just punching those dreaded paper targets.  ;D

Carl

I believe gunhippie hit the nail on the head! Yesterday I placed a reducer in the valve. The  usable shot count stayed in the 50 range but the fps averaged 499 506 494 501 and 480

Today I reduced the SS TP opening with an opening of .145. That gave me 90 usable shots with averages from 521 to 506. I should note that this was done with RWS hobbys instead of the CPHP's. That may explain the increase in fps over the previous test.

I haven't reduced the striker weight and may not need to. The Crosman stock transfer port opening is around .136. I plan to make a second reducer tomorrow with a hole size of .130 and install it. If I can get around 450 to 475 fps and a nice 100 or so shot count you may hear me yelling :-*
All the testing has been done in the basement where temps are not ideal. With warmer weather around the corner I expect to see even better results once I can get outside.

I've done some playing around with reducing the striker weight and it does make a difference.  On one of my 2300KTs with the 10.1" LW barrel I have the HDD and a lightened striker and my shot count is really good.  Somewhere around 80 to 100.  With the lightened striker I also went with the ProTop valve top because it took too many hits to puncture the powerlet.

Carl

007 that seams like a real good number ratio. Was that with your moded valve?

Very neat Carl, not seen much action on people modding the hammer, nice.

I had an idea of an alt HDD - don't know if it would work, its just an idea!

It was to put a rubber cap on the end of the striking side of the hammer.
When the hammer strikes initially hitting the pin and then on the bounce (or restrike) the recoil is absorbed
into itself with the rubber as a shock absorber?

Would it work? I got the idea when the train pulled into the station this morning and I saw the buffers on the front carriage.
I have limited tools but I'll try it if I can find something suitable for the absorber and I need to get a spare hammer.