Crosman Air Pistol Owners Forum

Crosman air pistol - General => Crosman air pistol - General discussion => Topic started by: millipede on November 14, 2011, 10:05:12 PM

Title: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: millipede on November 14, 2011, 10:05:12 PM
i just got off the phone with a lady at crosman. i was ordering a couple of different parts but decided to ask if steel breeches were in stock out of curiosity. she said that they are made to order so i asked if that meant they are handmade on the spot. she said no that they order the parts and put the kit together then ship them. i asked where they ordered them from and she just said they are bulk shipped from various places. it seems like she didnt want to give me a straight answer as to weather theyre made by a person or a machine. if theyre made to order, why do they order them in bulk?

whatever... she said theyre out of stock anyways
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: breakfastchef on November 14, 2011, 10:26:43 PM
Trade secret - never divulge your sources.
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: dpricenator on November 14, 2011, 10:51:31 PM
No reason you have to buy it from Crosman.  There are multiple places to buy an aftermarket breech for these guns.
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: millipede on November 14, 2011, 11:20:39 PM
crosman is the cheapest though
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: dpricenator on November 14, 2011, 11:55:50 PM
this is true, $10 more for the next one up.
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: 1377x on November 15, 2011, 12:28:27 AM
you wont get a straight direct answer from crosman
they just push buttons
it was hard to get answer out of them for the p-rod grip frame.never did get a complete answer.
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: Nightshade on November 15, 2011, 02:04:49 AM
Quote from: dpricenator on November 14, 2011, 10:51:31 PM
No reason you have to buy it from Crosman.  There are multiple places to buy an aftermarket breech for these guns.

There are other sources?!?!  :o :o No kidding........ ???

Please......where and who?  ???
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: quickster47 † on November 15, 2011, 02:18:15 AM
Don Cothran has breechs, Crosmods has breechs, Crooked Barn has breechs, Cobra has breechs, BNM CUSTOM AIRGUNS has breechs.  And probably a few I have missed.  However, these are all custom breechs and will cost more than the Crosman breech.

Carl
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: RC1947 on November 15, 2011, 03:52:32 AM
I had a similar experience with customer service when trying to get availability answers regarding a breech.  Bummer, RC
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: NorthStaR on November 15, 2011, 12:48:38 PM
Another source for breeches is GMAC. He does an all brass one too. And he caters for 'lefties'.
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: quickster47 † on November 15, 2011, 01:33:16 PM
Quote from: NorthStaR on November 15, 2011, 12:48:38 PM
Another source for breeches is GMAC. He does an all brass one too. And he caters for 'lefties'.

Yep, GMAC was one of the ones I missed.  I can blame it on the MBS that I am plagued with.

Carl

MBS = Multiple Birthday Syndrome
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: NorthStaR on November 15, 2011, 02:25:04 PM
MBS = I thought it was Multiple Breech Syndrome.

Happy Birthday BTW, and if its not yours pass it on!  ;D  ;)  :-*
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: arkmaker † on November 15, 2011, 02:52:57 PM
I am really surprised that Crosman does not make them in house. I would set up a cell of machines, one person, and go at it. After making an almost exact knockoff of their breech, I was thinking about how I would mass produce them if I were Crosman (making multiple anything syndrome is a trait of an old machinist). If you had the money for the initial investment of machines and tooling to be set up for just that purpose.....Cha Ching!!!
Rich
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: Crosshairs on November 15, 2011, 03:08:10 PM
They dont want to say there made in China.
                                       Mike
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: 1377x on November 15, 2011, 03:21:28 PM
i noticed differences in the crosman steel breeches
some have serial numbers,others dont,some have ugly tooling marks,some dont
i am lucky enough to be able to get breeches right now.no waiting for stock,no shipping its worth the couple extra dollars and tax to me for this luxury.
Title: One thing worth noting on the alternate breeches
Post by: Smaug on November 15, 2011, 03:36:16 PM
... is that the custom ones are usually aluminum instead of steel.

With that said, I have the steel one, thinking it would be more durable with the bolt going back and forth, up and down, in that slot. I actually waited for it. But I'm noticing now that the steel breech is a rust magnet. If I don't keep it oiled ALL THE TIME, it rusts.

Custom aluminum may not have been a bad idea after all, especially if it is hardened. ;)
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: 1377x on November 15, 2011, 03:39:55 PM
you right about the rust
when i get anything steel i clean it with eezox and rust doesnt form
after only one treatment 2-3 months ago store in a damp environment still no rust :D
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: arkmaker † on November 15, 2011, 03:42:35 PM
My nightmares about some sweat shop overseas with workers getting a dollar a day and and the parts made coming back to the US or Europe and selling for a premium price, all while out manufacturing base shrinks. Ain't the global economy great. Heck, I don't even own a pair of jeans that were made in the US anymore  :(

Enough rant.......you young machinist's listen up........

If I was a young man, I would set up a shop and cater to the boat people. I have never experienced any other group of people that were so willing to part with cash and lots of it, for Stainless Steel goodies for their boats. It is a sickness that I know first hand (although I used to make my own parts) and that as I said, if I was younger, I would cash in on. Marine parts sell for much more than their worth and the demand is incredible even in this economy! Unfortunately, most of us air gunners are not quite as enthusiastic to part with our money. An example is the Crosman steel breech. What are they now 35 bucks? I just showed my bud at work one before I started the SS one and they all said why? Why am I doing it? I can't possibly make a one off for anywhere near that price, Just buy another one.............but, make one out of SS and call it a boat part and I could ask 2 bills for it. I kid you not......so once again, if their are any young machinist's on this forum.....rethink the future
Title: You may be onto something, Arkmaker
Post by: Smaug on November 15, 2011, 03:48:01 PM
and don't be so quick to discount our ability to part with hard-earned money, either. We buy a $55 Crosman 1377, then pour another few hundred into it. It's just that we stretch it out more than the boaters. We spend $25 here, and $30 there.

Now that you mention it, I bet there would be a demand for a blued stainless steel breech to fit Crosman 13xx and 22xx pistols...

The thing with machining these is that if you don't have a CNC set-up, you've got no chance. CNC set-ups are not cheap, and an entry-level one would probably crap out before it paid itself off on $30 parts. I haven't done any machining since high school, and CNC was just bursting on the scene in a big way back then.
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: Crosshairs on November 15, 2011, 03:51:19 PM
Quote from: 1377x on November 15, 2011, 03:21:28 PM
i noticed differences in the crosman steel breeches
some have serial numbers,others dont,some have ugly tooling marks,some dont
i am lucky enough to be able to get breeches right now.no waiting for stock,no shipping its worth the couple extra dollars and tax to me for this luxury.
I still have the breech i got from you and it looks like a good one.
                                                    Mike
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: 1377x on November 15, 2011, 03:56:42 PM
i met some people from africa they are from liberia,nigeria,new guinea,cant recall
they send money back there
$50 a month usd.they said if they sent anymore than that it would get their family robbed and killed.for that $50usd a month they live like royalty according to them.
from that i get cost of living is not anything like here in america.
i can barely get an airgun for that.
the $1-$2 a day must be good pay in a place like that!
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: 1377x on November 15, 2011, 03:58:32 PM
Quote from: Crosshairs on November 15, 2011, 03:51:19 PM
I still have the breech i got from you and it looks like a good one.
                                                    Mike
yeah
that was a good one
the couple i replaced those ones with were not as nice
there has been a couple of new shipments since then
i have not looked at the latest ones yet
Title: Re: You may be onto something, Arkmaker
Post by: arkmaker † on November 15, 2011, 04:05:30 PM
Quote from: Smaug on November 15, 2011, 03:48:01 PM

The thing with machining these is that if you don't have a CNC set-up, you've got no chance. CNC set-ups are not cheap, and an entry-level one would probably crap out before it paid itself off on $30 parts. I haven't done any machining since high school, and CNC was just bursting on the scene in a big way back then.

I don't agree with you about using CNC and I agree with you at the same time, as it would be cost prohibitive to use CNC for one style of breech.

If there were a cell of machines dedicated only to making breeches, you would be almost as efficient as if using CNC machines. It's all in the set up and since the Crosman breeches are nothing more than a series of straight cuts and holes, CNC gets no real advantage except maybe a little on the speed side.

At Marlin, 99% of the machines were set up in these cells (all manual), each for a specific part. At that time, we only had 4 (or was it 6) CNC mills in the shop. Nope, if done right, the manual machines are sturdier, more dependable and more cost efficient.......if set up properly! That's my take for a cottage industry. Now ask me if I would rather have a new Bridgeport Mill or a new HAAS CNC mill? Haaaaa!  ;D
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: 1377x on November 15, 2011, 04:08:43 PM

QuoteNow ask me if I would rather have a new Bridgeport Mill or a new HAAS CNC mill? Haaaaa! 
ok i'll bite
which is it? ;D ;D
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: arkmaker † on November 15, 2011, 04:12:57 PM
Yeah, I'd take the HAAS  :-[
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: 1377x on November 15, 2011, 04:15:07 PM
 ;D ;Dthat's what i was thinking
stil had to ask  ;D ;D
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: quickster47 † on November 15, 2011, 04:29:29 PM
When I originally purchased my mill about 10 years ago I actually bought all the pieces to convert it to CNC.  I think now might be the time to do that.

It's a small mill but it does and will do anything I want.  One just has to take their time.

Carl
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: dpricenator on November 15, 2011, 06:46:41 PM
Quote from: Nightshade on November 15, 2011, 02:04:49 AM
There are other sources?!?!  :o :o No kidding........ ???

Please......where and who?  ???

I got mine from Crooked Barn.  He says it's a replica of the Steel breech, but in black anodized aluminum, $42 including the long bolt.  he also has a trigger shoe kit, and many length barrels..
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: dpricenator on November 15, 2011, 06:47:37 PM
Quote from: Nightshade on November 15, 2011, 02:04:49 AM
There are other sources?!?!  :o :o No kidding........ ???

Please......where and who?  ???
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: cheewee on November 17, 2011, 03:45:19 AM
Quote from: 1377x on November 15, 2011, 03:39:55 PM
you right about the rust
when i get anything steel i clean it with eezox and rust doesnt form
after only one treatment 2-3 months ago store in a damp environment still no rust :D

never heard of it but sounds interesting.
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: 1377x on November 17, 2011, 04:19:09 AM
Quote from: cheewee on November 17, 2011, 03:45:19 AM
never heard of it but sounds interesting.
this is eezox.its the can holding up my gun
i got it on ebay,now i have found it at my local gun store for the same price
http://eezox.com/gun-care.html (http://eezox.com/gun-care.html)
(http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt211/edf73/PA010453.jpg)
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: quickster47 † on November 17, 2011, 04:26:51 AM
I called yesterday and ordered two short steel breechs and two long steel breechs.  All the items were in stock and the interesting thing was that the short breechs were more expensive than the long breechs.  Go figure...

Carl
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: 1377x on November 17, 2011, 04:30:23 AM
Quote from: quickster47 on November 17, 2011, 04:26:51 AM
I called yesterday and ordered two short steel breechs and two long steel breechs.  All the items were in stock and the interesting thing was that the short breechs were more expensive than the long breechs.  Go figure...

Carl
i found that out a while ago
at least now the short breech can be ordered
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: quickster47 † on November 17, 2011, 01:32:46 PM
I called back right before they closed for the day and asked about another short breech and long breech and they were both out of stock.  Must be some underground grapevine that spreads like wildfire when certain pieces come back in stock because they sure don't last too long.

Carl
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: Bruce46 on November 17, 2011, 02:14:42 PM
I'll be the first to say Crosman isn't perfect, however, how many other gun makers willingly indulge us gun nuts. (I'm happy because they had the breech and valve I wanted.) :-*
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: arkmaker † on November 18, 2011, 01:54:08 AM
Quote from: Bruce46 on November 17, 2011, 02:14:42 PM
I'll be the first to say Crosman isn't perfect, however, how many other gun makers willingly indulge us gun nuts. (I'm happy because they had the breech and valve I wanted.) :-*

Ditto that!
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: dpricenator on November 18, 2011, 07:12:24 PM
Quote from: quickster47 on November 17, 2011, 01:32:46 PM
I called back right before they closed for the day and asked about another short breech and long breech and they were both out of stock.  Must be some underground grapevine that spreads like wildfire when certain pieces come back in stock because they sure don't last too long.

Carl

That under ground network is rfight here, and the other forums.  This is nt the only conversation I have seen in the past few weeks looking for these.  So 1 guy posts on several forums, and in less that 48 hours, crosman gets 75 phone calls averageing 1.5 breeches per call, and all of a sudden they are out of stock.
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: quickster47 † on November 18, 2011, 07:41:52 PM
Quote from: dpricenator on November 18, 2011, 07:12:24 PM
That under ground network is rfight here, and the other forums.  This is nt the only conversation I have seen in the past few weeks looking for these.  So 1 guy posts on several forums, and in less that 48 hours, crosman gets 75 phone calls averageing 1.5 breeches per call, and all of a sudden they are out of stock.

Correct, I knew that.  :)

Carl
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: 1377x on November 19, 2011, 01:42:38 AM
seeing all this makes me glad we are well stocked around here
gotta go down and get a 1399 stock in the am
Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: ceejay on November 19, 2011, 02:44:39 PM
- - - - but Crosman currently shows Steel Breech Kit Part # 1377SBPK in stock. What am I missing here??

Title: Re: steel breech info from lady at crosman
Post by: quickster47 † on November 19, 2011, 04:51:42 PM
Quote from: ceejay on November 19, 2011, 02:44:39 PM
- - - - but Crosman currently shows Steel Breech Kit Part # 1377SBPK in stock. What am I missing here??

The old left hand versus right hand thing again, Internet sales versus real person on phone looking at inventory stock sale.

Carl