Hello everyone! Since completing my steel breech a little while back, I have been thinking about how I could make a rear sight. Too cheap to buy one, besides, I thought it would be fun. I am milling the sight from some steel bits and pieces I had lying around. I wanted the rear sight to be adjustable for both windage and elevation. I also wanted it to fit the dovetail I had cut in the steel breech when I built it. The first photo shows the starting cuts made with a 3/8" straight end mill, and finished with a 45 degree dovetail cutter.
After getting the block to fit the dovetail of the 2240 with my steel breech, I was ready to start shaping the sight. To do this, I again used a straight endmill and a 45 degree bevel cutter.
The sight is starting to take shape after the profile is cut out on the mill.
The actual moveable part of the sight is simplt a "T" shape which is cut to somewhat the same profile as the base of the sight. I used a 1/16" pin (decapping pin from my reloading days) for the pivot to allow for elevation adjustment. Drilling through both parts and keeping the hole straight was a little tricky, but after only one broken drill (1/16") I made it through the nearly 3/4" steel. Now you can see how the base is taking shape on the breech and how both parts are fitting together.
Here, the adjustable part of the sight is taking shape. This is the end for the project for tonight. More to come later. Hope you enjoy this little project.
More, more!!
thats quite the process!
nice work!
Thanks breakfastchef and 1377X. I appreciate the comments. I will show more when I get a chance to work on it again, maybe tomorrow night. Going fishing first ;).
PS: Mods, please move this thread if you wish. It probably should have gone in the Crosman Co2 technical/mods forum. I had a senior moment and put it in the wrong place, I think.
Quote from: Oldnshakey on May 17, 2012, 05:45:29 AM
Thanks breakfastchef and 1377X. I appreciate the comments. I will show more when I get a chance to work on it again, maybe tomorrow night. Going fishing first ;).
PS: Mods, please move this thread if you wish. It probably should have gone in the Crosman Co2 technical/mods forum. I had a senior moment and put it in the wrong place, I think.
not a problem as the mod can work on any steel breeched gun! well dovetailed breech i guess
keep up the good work!!
good luck fishing!
Quote from: 1377x on May 17, 2012, 05:57:03 AM
not a problem as the mod can work on any steel breeched gun! well dovetailed breech i guess
keep up the good work!!
good luck fishing!
Thanks :)
looking good, wish I could make my own stuff like, it really hurt me to pay $40 for the LPA rear sight from Crosman, and I won't even know if I like it until it gets here
Quote from: plasticclassic on May 17, 2012, 06:55:42 AM
looking good, wish I could make my own stuff like, it really hurt me to pay $40 for the LPA rear sight from Crosman, and I won't even know if I like it until it gets here
Thanks plasticclassic. I didn't want to pay the $40 either. If I calculate my time, I will have made about $2-3 dollars per hour for this little job. ;D Don't even want to think about the tooling. Oh well, it's another hobby. ???
Lookin Good :-*
I could look at machining pics all day long. Great work :-*
Awesome post! I can't wait to see how you do the adjustments...
andy
Thanks KevinP and Sandpiper. Like I have said before, I am not a machinists. I wish I had half the knowledge a true machinists has to have. :)
Quote from: tuckera on May 17, 2012, 12:54:49 PM
Awesome post! I can't wait to see how you do the adjustments...
andy
Hint: think Ruger! ;) Thanks for watching. Now off to go fishing on the Ohio River. ;D
Quote from: Oldnshakey on May 17, 2012, 02:07:29 PM
Thanks KevinP and Sandpiper. Like I have said before, I am not a machinists. I wish I had half the knowledge a true machinists has to have. :)
Is that a milling machine or a make shift drill press mill?
I truly envy those that have the knowledge and means to make parts like that.
Truly one of a kind, while the rest of us have to buy "off the rack" so to speak.
Quote from: sandpiper on May 17, 2012, 02:58:34 PM
Is that a milling machine or a make shift drill press mill?
It is larger and heavier built than the average drill press. It is advertised as a mill/drill and is basically the same machine as these without the power feeds or readouts.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=518&PMCTLG=00 (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=518&PMCTLG=00)
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill-w-Variable-Speed-Power-Feed/G1007 (http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill-w-Variable-Speed-Power-Feed/G1007)
Mine is an older Enco model, but looks just like the Enco on the left or the Grizzly machine. Uses R8 collets and weighs around 600 lbs.
Quote from: SaiCo on May 17, 2012, 06:56:07 PM
I truly envy those that have the knowledge and means to make parts like that.
Truly one of a kind, while the rest of us have to buy "off the rack" so to speak.
Thank you. I appreciate the comment.
Quote from: Oldnshakey on May 18, 2012, 01:55:31 AM
It is larger and heavier built than the average drill press. It is advertised as a mill/drill and is basically the same machine as these without the power feeds or readouts.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=518&PMCTLG=00 (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=518&PMCTLG=00)
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill-w-Variable-Speed-Power-Feed/G1007 (http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill-w-Variable-Speed-Power-Feed/G1007)
Mine is an older Enco model, but looks just like the Enco on the left or the Grizzly machine. Uses R8 collets and weighs around 600 lbs.
I purchased a milling bit to stick in my Delta drill press. It didn't work at all :(
Quote from: sandpiper on May 18, 2012, 03:31:43 AM
I purchased a milling bit to stick in my Delta drill press. It didn't work at all :(
Most drill presses are not rigid enough and are not heavy enough to dampen vibrations. Above all is a safety hazard. A potentially dangerous problem is many drill chucks are held in place only by a tapered spindle and can shake loose when subjected to the side load and vibration of a milling cutter. If cutting with the side of an end mill, the flutes are actually pulling the cutter and the chuck away from the machine. A loose, spinning, milling cutter flying across the shop, or at the very least ruining your work, is not something one would want to experience.
Long term, the bearings in a drill press are not designed to handle the side stresses milling creates. Cross slide vises, while very handy for locating work for drilling, are usually not rigid enough for milling work, unless in relatively soft plastics or wood. Even then, the possibility of the chuck and your sharp milling cutter coming off the spindle still exists.
Quote from: Oldnshakey on May 18, 2012, 05:37:45 AM
Most drill presses are not rigid enough and are not heavy enough to dampen vibrations. Above all is a safety hazard. A potentially dangerous problem is many drill chucks are held in place only by a tapered spindle and can shake loose when subjected to the side load and vibration of a milling cutter. If cutting with the side of an end mill, the flutes are actually pulling the cutter and the chuck away from the machine. A loose, spinning, milling cutter flying across the shop, or at the very least ruining your work, is not something one would want to experience.
Long term, the bearings in a drill press are not designed to handle the side stresses milling creates. Cross slide vises, while very handy for locating work for drilling, are usually not rigid enough for milling work, unless in relatively soft plastics or wood. Even then, the possibility of the chuck and your sharp milling cutter coming off the spindle still exists.
I know exactly what you mean with the taper. My chuck was binding and needed to be replaced. After staring at it for a while then finally going to the internet, I figured out how to replace it. It's just a precision tapered fit that pops off then back on.
Quote from: Oldnshakey on May 18, 2012, 05:37:45 AM
Most drill presses are not rigid enough and are not heavy enough to dampen vibrations. Above all is a safety hazard. A potentially dangerous problem is many drill chucks are held in place only by a tapered spindle and can shake loose when subjected to the side load and vibration of a milling cutter. If cutting with the side of an end mill, the flutes are actually pulling the cutter and the chuck away from the machine. A loose, spinning, milling cutter flying across the shop, or at the very least ruining your work, is not something one would want to experience.
Long term, the bearings in a drill press are not designed to handle the side stresses milling creates. Cross slide vises, while very handy for locating work for drilling, are usually not rigid enough for milling work, unless in relatively soft plastics or wood. Even then, the possibility of the chuck and your sharp milling cutter coming off the spindle still exists.
x2
it is a risky bussiness and needs to be done with great care.
one also needs to think about the direction of cut and try to avoid "climb" milling
Quote from: cheewee on May 18, 2012, 06:22:05 PM
x2
it is a risky bussiness and needs to be done with great care.
one also needs to think about the direction of cut and try to avoid "climb" milling
Exactly! Very good point about the "climb" milling.
Quote from: Oldnshakey on May 19, 2012, 03:21:39 AM
Exactly! Very good point about the "climb" milling.
OK Guys, someone please explain "mill climb".
Quote from: sandpiper on May 19, 2012, 03:49:07 AM
OK Guys, someone please explain "mill climb".
I am guessing it is akin to a drill bit 'wandering' on a drill press.
ok picture your cutter turning, now depending on which direction you feed the material into it one way it will be trying to push the material away(conventional) and the other the cutter will try to climb the material, the problem is that it also grabs the metal and drags it into the cutter. the problem is exagerated by exessive backlash in screws and can have disasterous results.
hell a picture is worth a thousand words let me see what i can do.
Quote from: cheewee on May 19, 2012, 05:06:35 AM
ok picture your cutter turning, now depending on which direction you feed the material into it one way it will be trying to push the material away(conventional) and the other the cutter will try to climb the material, the problem is that it also grabs the metal and drags it into the cutter. the problem is exagerated by exessive backlash in screws and can have disasterous results.
hell a picture is worth a thousand words let me see what i can do.
Ahhh, great artwork :-* Thank you.
Great work on the sight Oldnshakey. :-* It is fun doing your own work. Machining is not as easy as one might think untill you learn the tricks of the trade then it get easier. I'm still learning. Never had any classes on it but have been around some people who do machining for a living. I have learned alot from them. The biggest thing with machining is the right tooling. That is the difference from a fair part to a great part when done. And of course the knowledge to use the tooling.
ok oldnshakey back to it i want to see how you finish this up :)
great work by the way :-*
Great work!! Looks like you will have yourself a really nice site :-* :-*
Thank you Gary, Jeff and arkmaker. I did get some more work done today on the sight. It is still rather rough, but it is functional and ready for smoothing and bluing. BTWm Cheewee, great explanation and picture for the "climb" milling. Climb milling can be done on a machine such as mine, and also on heavier machines. I have used the climb milling with very light cuts and with the gibs snugged up on the tables. It is said to give a smoother finish cut by not dragging chips under the cutter to mar the finish.
Anyway, here are a few more photos of the sight, still a work in progress. Lots of smoothing to do.
I drilled and tapped two 6-32 holes through the base block. One is for a grub screw to lock the sight to the dovetail of the breech. The other is for the elevation screw. I put a spring between the two parts of the sight to keep tension in the upwards direction against the elevation adjusting screw.
The sight blade is one from a Ruger sight. It was a spare I had in the junk drawer after replacing it with a white outline rear blade on a powderburner many years ago. Ruger used this slot and blade arrangement, but with a spring on one side and only one screw for windage adjustment. I have used two screws, one on either side to push and lock the blade for windage.
Once I determine the correct height for the front sight, I think this will work well enough. Not as neat as a store bought sight, but once finished, it will be OK.
Very much like the Crosman Mark I & II sight. A very good one to reproduce. I want one!
Here is a photo of the sight installed on the breech I made to start this project. It may be a little bulky looking, but I am hoping after it is blued, it will not look quite so large. Not shown in the pictures, but I modified a plastic Crosman front sight to try for the front. I don't think it is goint to be tall enough, but will give me a starting point. I didn't show it because I have it held in place with black electrical tape :-[.
Quote from: breakfastchef on May 20, 2012, 06:12:47 AM
Very much like the Crosman Mark I & II sight. A very good one to reproduce. I want one!
Thanks Larry. I'm afraid it will never go into production. I have too many hours in it to be able to make them to sell.
looking mighty good there!
i like it 8)
Quote from: 1377x on May 20, 2012, 06:16:26 AM
looking mighty good there!
i like it 8)
Thank you sir!
Coming out very nice .. :-*
I'm impressed!! Looks great. :-* It would be nice to have one out of stainless but man that stuff is hard to machine. Yours is going to look great finished up. :-* :-*
Thank you KevinP. I appreciate the kind words.
Thank you gdm620. I agree, stainless would be nice. I have never tried machining stainless, but I have tried tapping a couple holes and it was very difficult.
If you ever want to use stainless and have to machine it, try 303 EZ
It is a free machining stainless and cuts extremely well. Drills and taps easy as well. The one drawback is that it is not meant for marine environments, like 304 and 316 SS's are. But, for our applications it will perform just fine. I made my breech out of it. Deep hole drilling was not a problem. In fact, I like it better than machining brass. And now for the shameless plug, I'll have to show you a pic of it.......
Rich
Looks good Rich
Quote from: arkmaker on May 20, 2012, 07:18:39 PM
If you ever want to use stainless and have to machine it, try 303 EZ
And now for the shameless plug, I'll have to show you a pic of it.......
Rich
We like shameless plugs. Keep those pics coming. Nice work :-*
Quote from: arkmaker on May 20, 2012, 07:18:39 PM
If you ever want to use stainless and have to machine it, try 303 EZ
It is a free machining stainless and cuts extremely well. Drills and taps easy as well. The one drawback is that it is not meant for marine environments, like 304 and 316 SS's are. But, for our applications it will perform just fine. I made my breech out of it. Deep hole drilling was not a problem. In fact, I like it better than machining brass. And now for the shameless plug, I'll have to show you a pic of it.......
Rich
Very nice. I like the stainless look very much. Thanks for the tip on the type of stainless you used.
You all may be getting tired of hearing about this, but this is the last photo series for the sight project. It is officially finished. I used some cold blue which could have been better, and I modified a plastic front sight which came with the 2240 to fit on my shroud for the barrel. It seems to be the correct height for the adjustment range of my rear sight. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while ;) :P.
First a couple shots of the rear sight mounted on the 2240 close up.
PS: In case anyone is wondering, the screw in front of the sight is for a spring and ball like used for the safety. I put a small dimple in the probe to keep it shut and also to put a little drag on it to hold it open while loading a pellet. I need to get a ball and spring to finish that little mod.
Now a photo of the modified front sight and finally the 2240 with the new sights. Sorry for the dust and lint on the pics. It didn't look that bad until I enlarged them on the screen.
Thanks to everyone who has followed this project and thank you for the kind comments. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I.
Dang! That's tough looking! You did a fantastic job on the sites :-* The whole overall look of the gun is unique!
That is a good idea to use a spring loaded ball bearing to keep the bolt in place. Mind if I use that idea? I was shooting today and had my bolt flop closed a bunch of times. This little mod seems to be the ticket to never having that happen again!
Rich
Quote from: arkmaker on May 21, 2012, 02:05:16 AM
Dang! That's tough looking! You did a fantastic job on the sites :-* The whole overall look of the gun is unique!
That is a good idea to use a spring loaded ball bearing to keep the bolt in place. Mind if I use that idea? I was shooting today and had my bolt flop closed a bunch of times. This little mod seems to be the ticket to never having that happen again!
Rich
Thanks Rich. I haven't actually got to use the ball and spring mod yet. There won't be much room for the set screw, spring and ball. I had ground down a setscrew to shorten it some, but didn't have a ball. I tried making a short plunger type ball end, but it didn't work so well. I may try another tomorrow. You are certainly welcome to use the idea. I know it works to hold the bolt back, but not sure if the dimple in the bolt is going to work. I am going to make another probe anyway.
I looked a using a valier set screw for something that evades my mind right now but it was to long. Maybe if the set screw is long enough, you could dimple it enough to hold the ball with a small dab of grease and then screw down until you have light friction and hold it in place with another dab of blue loc-tite on the threads??
Heck of a good idea, that I will pursue.
Rich
http://www.vlier.com/product_index/sld/bp_05_posihex.html (http://www.vlier.com/product_index/sld/bp_05_posihex.html)
looking really good sight is impressive. cant wait to see your next project
Quote from: arkmaker on May 21, 2012, 03:00:56 AM
I looked a using a valier set screw for something that evades my mind right now but it was to long. Maybe if the set screw is long enough, you could dimple it enough to hold the ball with a small dab of grease and then screw down until you have light friction and hold it in place with another dab of blue loc-tite on the threads??
Heck of a good idea, that I will pursue.
Rich
http://www.vlier.com/product_index/sld/bp_05_posihex.html (http://www.vlier.com/product_index/sld/bp_05_posihex.html)
That type of set screw should work fine for this application. I don't know if I could find them locally at Lowes or HD. My spring will work OK if I get a ball small enough. I thing the 3/32 used for the safety will work when I can get one.
Quote from: cheewee on May 21, 2012, 04:12:20 AM
looking really good sight is impressive. cant wait to see your next project
Thank you. My next project will probably be one of the 2400KT. I am thinking some wood and a wire stock to dress it up.
nice job!
cant wait to see what you do on the next project!
Quote from: 1377x on May 21, 2012, 04:32:36 AM
nice job!
cant wait to see what you do on the next project!
Thank you. I am looking forward to starting on the carbine.
Turned out great :-*
I thoroughly enjoyed watching this progress. I wish I had the tools and the skill to make parts!
I'm sure it's been asked before, but is that a shroud on the barrel or is that a bull barrel itself?? That 2240 is really nice looking. And the new sight looks like it could take a beating and never go out of whack.
Quote from: Fronzdan on May 21, 2012, 09:56:00 PM
I thoroughly enjoyed watching this progress. I wish I had the tools and the skill to make parts!
I'm sure it's been asked before, but is that a shroud on the barrel or is that a bull barrel itself?? That 2240 is really nice looking. And the new sight looks like it could take a beating and never go out of whack.
Thank you for the kind comments. If you acquire the tools, the skill will come with a little work and reading on the net. The sight is all steel, so it is rather sturdy. The shroud is indeed, just that. It is made of black delrin which I bought from Enco.com. It is around $15.00 for a 4ft. length of 1" diameter stock. Machines easily. The barrel comes within 1/4" of the end of the shroud, so it is strictly decorative.