Crosman Air Pistol Owners Forum

Crosman air pistol - General => Crosman air pistol - General discussion => Topic started by: josey88 on November 17, 2012, 08:21:34 PM

Title: P-rod rough frame
Post by: josey88 on November 17, 2012, 08:21:34 PM
I started examining in detail the P-rod frame/asembly that will go into my 2400KT when it arrives in a week or so and everything is fine , except for the very rough part of the frame at front of the grips ... this is I think a residue from the cast . 
I am begining to think that I will have to disassemble the whole thing to sand and polish that part of the frame and then paint it again ... what a PITA this is 
I read somewhere that the custom shop sands and finishes the frames of the ordered guns much better , so if the frames are both the same , I will put the p-rod trigger assembly on the 2400KT frame if the frame comes better finished . Looking at my 1377`s , I think they are exactly the same , except that the p-rod assembly uses a third pin , which is not used but ready to install on the 1377 /2400kt frames.  Once again , what a PITA just to do things right
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: josey88 on November 17, 2012, 08:41:13 PM
Well, I guess not ... the frames are the same but the 2400KT lacks the travel screw for the trigger and also another hole behind to make adjustments to the Sear , so ...  no swapping of frames and the only route left is disassembling and sanding and painting the P-rod frame ... my luck is shinning brightly 
I always use Duplicolor low gloss black , 500 degrees engine paint for my AK builts , so I will use the same for the frame . Maybe Crosman uses the same paint for their frames  because it looks exactly like it
Of course, I can always leave it the way it came , but ... nahh... I`ll fix it 
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: chongman on November 17, 2012, 08:51:43 PM
The Custom Shop frames appear (to me) just pick of the litter frames. Both of the Custom Shop 22xx frames I have came with minimal casting flash and are not sanded smooth. They do have the trigger travel adjusting screw, as do the 2300T/S.

If you have a 2400KT straight out of the box it should have the travel screw, if not? You got skint  ???

Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: josey88 on November 17, 2012, 09:01:17 PM
Quote from: chongman on November 17, 2012, 08:51:43 PM
The Custom Shop frames appear (to me) just pick of the litter frames. Both of the Custom Shop 22xx frames I have came with minimal casting flash and are not sanded smooth. They do have the trigger travel adjusting screw, as do the 2300T/S.

If you have a 2400KT straight out of the box it should have the travel screw, if not? You got skint  ???
You are right... mi bad . I was just comparing it to the 1377 frame that doesn`t have that travel screw . but most likely the 2400kt would not have the hole behind that travel screw (for adjusting the Sear`s hex key screws) so I guess that  since I have gone to the trouble of upgrading the 2400kt , may as well give it the finish it deserves .
The hex key screws on the P-rd trigger are all loctited , so unless I  tamper with the adjusting directly , they would not loose the setting from factory , so there would not be a problem handling it, carefully.
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: 1377x on November 19, 2012, 01:47:07 AM
the older ccs guns had nicely refinished frames with cast marks removed, when that changed not sure
i just had my p-rod frame repainted but forgot to remove the casting mark.as long as the paint holds it will remain that way
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: josey88 on November 19, 2012, 02:59:48 AM
Well, mine has very rough marks from the casting and some parts are not even painted ... around the trigger that will be seen is pretty bad . So, what I am going to do is :
diasssembly of the trigger completely (no problem)
strip the paint completely , leaving it on the naked pot metal , like I did with the 1377 .
but instead of polishing it , I will sand off all the imperfections with 400 sand paper and then after cleaning , spray it with Duplicolor black engine paint 500 degrees resistent (an old trick from AK building) low gloss . The paint need the light scratches from the 400 sanding to adhere well . After it dries , I will spray a coat of transparent Helmsman spar urethane , clear satin . That will seal the paint and protect it . It would be beautiful and nice to the touch .
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: 1377x on November 19, 2012, 03:46:16 AM
Quote from: josey88 on November 19, 2012, 02:59:48 AM
Well, mine has very rough marks from the casting and some parts are not even painted ... around the trigger that will be seen is pretty bad . So, what I am going to do is :
diasssembly of the trigger completely (no problem)
strip the paint completely , leaving it on the naked pot metal , like I did with the 1377 .
but instead of polishing it , I will sand off all the imperfections with 400 sand paper and then after cleaning , spray it with Duplicolor black engine paint 500 degrees resistent (an old trick from AK building) low gloss . The paint need the light scratches from the 400 sanding to adhere well . After it dries , I will spray a coat of transparent Helmsman spar urethane , clear satin . That will seal the paint and protect it . It would be beautiful and nice to the touch .
have you ever warmed up the metal before painting?
im just wondering if that would make the paint stick better because the pores in the metal will open some
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: josey88 on November 19, 2012, 04:03:51 AM
You make sure that the metal is not cold ... normal temp , then when it is dry you put on the oven with only 225 degress and just for 25 minutes, hanging . After that, the whole thingis ready . Sometimes , if there is a particular part that it is difficult, I hang it on top of the  stove while on until is warm a little bit. I did that with some mags for my VZ-58 and they took the paint perfectly .
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: 1377x on November 19, 2012, 05:42:21 AM
cool!
i have to find somewhere to use a oven,it will not happen in the kitchen oven at home
maybe i'll go get a toster oven from a second hand store for drying small parts
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: josey88 on November 19, 2012, 06:26:44 AM
Quote from: 1377x on November 19, 2012, 05:42:21 AM
cool!
i have to find somewhere to use a oven,it will not happen in the kitchen oven at home
maybe i'll go get a toster oven from a second hand store for drying small parts
Why not ? I use the oven at home . Because the paint is already dry for at least few hours and you would hang the part on a wire inside the oven so it doesn`t touch anything , there is very little odor , if any at all .
I already stripped the frame and sanded, cleaned and painted it with the engine paint . Now is hanging in the garage , drying and tomorrow will be dry completely so here  comes the Oven step . After the Oven , I will spray the urethane , wait 24 hours to dry (no oven this time) and that is it .
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: 1377x on November 19, 2012, 07:56:58 AM
oh its a call beyond my control the oven is off limits like shooting in the house is now  :(
the oven is brand new i should have saved the old oven for this reason
the toster ovens i was looking at not long ago are a decent size.i just need to get one of those digital thermometers
i had one like this but it got stolen along with my kill-a-watt.then i check and make sure the used oven is doing what it is supposed to
http://www.harborfreight.com/non-contact-laser-thermometer-96451.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/non-contact-laser-thermometer-96451.html)
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: crossliner on November 19, 2012, 10:53:23 AM
Quote from: josey88 on November 19, 2012, 02:59:48 AM
Well, mine has very rough marks from the casting and some parts are not even painted ... around the trigger that will be seen is pretty bad . So, what I am going to do is :
diasssembly of the trigger completely (no problem)
strip the paint completely , leaving it on the naked pot metal , like I did with the 1377 .
but instead of polishing it , I will sand off all the imperfections with 400 sand paper and then after cleaning , spray it with Duplicolor black engine paint 500 degrees resistent (an old trick from AK building) low gloss . The paint need the light scratches from the 400 sanding to adhere well . After it dries , I will spray a coat of transparent Helmsman spar urethane , clear satin . That will seal the paint and protect it . It would be beautiful and nice to the touch .

Hi Mr. Josey..Am I right to assume that hi temp paint is enamel and would it not curl up if you spray coat it w/ clear urethane? I had my frames airbrushed by a pro but as nice as they look they are not impact resistant. A small bump would break the paint causing it to chip off.  Best regards.
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: josey88 on November 19, 2012, 04:26:18 PM
Well, this urethane is for wood . It is the most resistent thing I have ever seen ... all weather , outside and inside, really tough stuff,  and it is , since is made for exterior/interior  protection of wood , and wood contracts and expands , kind of flexible . I have done a couple of buttstocks  and they look just like the first day , although I am careful handling my guns and I care about their appearance . I do not trow my guns around . I also did  some mags . This thing is very , very tough . It is mostly an exterior all weather protective lacquer . I cannot attest if it would survive a drop from 6 feets up in the air (I think that the gun would not survive that , as well) but for the normal handling , with a normal care  , it works .
It will seal and protect the paint from the wear and tear from the use . It comes in 3 flavors : clear satin , semi-gloss and high gloss . I use clear satin and when dry , you cannot tell it has been coated with .
It would not curl up . I have sprayed the urethane 1 hour after painting a part and it is fine , but usually I wait until  the paint is completely dry ... 8 to 10 hours .
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: chongman on November 19, 2012, 04:46:19 PM
So where's the pictures  ??? As they say, no pics it didn't happen  :D
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: josey88 on November 19, 2012, 05:26:45 PM
I have not finished it . I am putting it on the Oven for the paint final drying . This afternoon I will spray the urethane coat and tomorrow it will be done . I will put pics of it finished .
I forgot to ad that I have also used the urethane (the same clear satin, I don`t like shiny bling guns) on my PSL receiver cover and on the metal buttstock , and of course , in a few rifles wood stocks .
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: josey88 on November 19, 2012, 06:48:22 PM
Some pics of the frame out of the Oven :
(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh125/josey88/003-74.jpg)
(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh125/josey88/002-82.jpg)
(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh125/josey88/001-82.jpg)
The frame was very rough by the front of the grips (first pic) and inside the trigger ring , on one spot there was a mountain(literally) of material ... I had to use the Dremel to get it out . You can see (second pic) that now,  it is smooth .
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: crossliner on November 20, 2012, 01:57:22 PM
Quote from: josey88 on November 19, 2012, 04:26:18 PM
Well, this urethane is for wood . It is the most resistent thing I have ever seen ... all weather , outside and inside, really tough stuff,  and it is , since is made for exterior/interior  protection of wood , and wood contracts and expands , kind of flexible . I have done a couple of buttstocks  and they look just like the first day , although I am careful handling my guns and I care about their appearance . I do not trow my guns around . I also did  some mags . This thing is very , very tough . It is mostly an exterior all weather protective lacquer . I cannot attest if it would survive a drop from 6 feets up in the air (I think that the gun would not survive that , as well) but for the normal handling , with a normal care  , it works .
It will seal and protect the paint from the wear and tear from the use . It comes in 3 flavors : clear satin , semi-gloss and high gloss . I use clear satin and when dry , you cannot tell it has been coated with .
It would not curl up . I have sprayed the urethane 1 hour after painting a part and it is fine , but usually I wait until  the paint is completely dry ... 8 to 10 hours .

Ah yes we use this coating for wood tiles..I am also very meticulous w/ my wares I hate dings or scratches. When my 3 grips got done I tested the inside sections and got disappointed. Nice work btw. Best regards.
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: josey88 on November 20, 2012, 08:54:48 PM
crossliner , I am still admiring your polished 1377... that is the most elegant pistol on this forum , no question about it . Perfect taste , classic elegance ... I am out of  words to describe it 
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: 0351_Vet on November 20, 2012, 09:01:09 PM
Yep, Josey,
Crossliner,
Droid,
Arkmaker,
Crosshairs,
Chongman,
.......Just to name a few,
of the many, here,
that all built excellent pistols.  :-*
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: 1377x on November 20, 2012, 09:15:45 PM
Quote from: josey88 on November 20, 2012, 08:54:48 PM
crossliner , I am still admiring your polished 1377... that is the most elegant pistol on this forum , no question about it . Perfect taste , classic elegance ... I am out of  words to describe it 
if you want to see shiny you need to see airgun100's guns
http://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php/topic,3609.15.html (http://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php/topic,3609.15.html)
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n196/LOC519/custom1377c2.jpg)
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: 0351_Vet on November 20, 2012, 10:57:24 PM
Now that's some bling.  :D :D :D

(Looks to nice to shoot. Like it should be on display).

It does however look pretty Bitchen... :-*
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: crossliner on November 21, 2012, 12:10:57 AM
Mr. Josey thank you but Mrs. Crosshairs, Airgun100 and some other gents' pistols should take the cake..Mine is just a simple build..Best regards.
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: josey88 on November 21, 2012, 01:23:45 AM
Yes, many of the builds here are truly works of art ... I just happen to like the contrast of crossliner`s pistol on Chrome / polish and simplicity . Those screws are most certainly  unique . The elegance of detail is fantastic ... there are more sophisticated builts here , of course ... I just love this one .
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: crossliner on November 21, 2012, 02:46:31 AM
Thank you sir..The screws are not standard I had my bud machinist do his thing. Best regards.
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: josey88 on November 21, 2012, 06:02:02 AM
Update on the frame : Well, After all the work I didn`t like the way it came out . It looked just kind of thick , and , since I didn`t want to do the whole thing again , I stripped the frame again to metal and this time I sprayed it with the same type of engine paint 500 degrees resistent , but on Semi-gloss and no Urethane . After 4 hours drying and 20  minutes on the Oven , it ws done .  I re-assembled the trigger so I would not loose anything and I hanged it again . To be completely done it would need 3 or 4 days for the paint to cure .
This time I liked it ... it came out absolutely perfect , and it has a low gloss finish very nice .
Here are some pics :
(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh125/josey88/006-62.jpg)
(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh125/josey88/004-69.jpg)
(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh125/josey88/002-83.jpg)
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: targettgii on November 21, 2012, 06:10:34 AM
Good work came out excellent  :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: 1377x on November 21, 2012, 06:47:01 AM
Quote from: josey88 on November 21, 2012, 01:23:45 AM
Yes, many of the builds here are truly works of art ... I just happen to like the contrast of crossliner`s pistol on Chrome / polish and simplicity . Those screws are most certainly  unique . The elegance of detail is fantastic ... there are more sophisticated builts here , of course ... I just love this one .
i hear you there!
he does have a very cool gun if you are talking about the 1377 i really like what he did with the barrel band and screws with the bearings in them very unique! 8)
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: 0351_Vet on November 21, 2012, 05:51:35 PM
Quote from: 1377x on November 21, 2012, 06:47:01 AM
i hear you there!
he does have a very cool gun if you are talking about the 1377 i really like what he did with the barrel band and screws with the bearings in them very unique! 8)

I am still trying to figure out how CL accomplished the screws?????? They are really bicthen. :-*
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: chongman on November 21, 2012, 08:18:01 PM
The frame looks super nice  :-*
Title: Re: P-rod rough frame
Post by: 1377x on November 21, 2012, 08:22:08 PM
Quote from: 0351_Vet on November 21, 2012, 05:51:35 PM
I am still trying to figure out how CL accomplished the screws?????? They are really bicthen. :-*
ask him i did ;)