Hello All, I'm new to air pistols but have owned rifles nearly all my life. I got the idea of setting up a silhouette range in the back yard for my son and I to have some fun. I went shopping for suitable pistols, one for each of us and ran across the 2240. At first glance I dismissed it as too cheap to be accurate, but then started reading reviews and was impressed. Convinced they would work I ordered thru Amazon because I'm a Prime member. The first day was very windy and I wrote off the bad groups to the weather. Second day was calm so I set up my bench, shot bags and Chrony to do some serious testing. The two guns performed nearly identically. With the Premiere 14.3g pellets velocity was 400 fps and at 10 yds the groups were around 2". Not happy with this at all I thought maybe it was me. So I moved indoors and put the pistols in a vise. I got the same results. Since I was using a new tin of pellets I got out the Marauder rifle and as usual was punching the same hole at 30 yds. At this point I probably should have returned them, but the tinkerer in me couldn't do that. I found the necessary instructional videos and tore them down. Did not find anything obvious, but did clean and lubricate everything. Same performance as before. So here I am looking for advice. I know that there are tons of after market upgrades but that's not really the direction I want to go. I would rather get these shooting good and get back to the business of shooting silhouettes not tinkering with the guns. Thanks for any help.
Art
Try some different pellets. I have shot CP .22 brown box 14.3 thru high velocity AG's and they group well but thru my 1322's at about 400 fps looks like a shot gun pattern - don't know why ??? could be head size, pellet too hard for lower pressure ???
The soft JSB exact give me one hole groups in both .177 and .22 with 13xx :)
Did you clean your barrels really good? Sometimes Crosman gets some paint in them. They may need re-crowning too. I've had two barrels that benefited from re-crowning.
Merry Christmas,
Quote from: JEBert on December 24, 2012, 06:40:44 PM
Did you clean your barrels really good? Sometimes Crosman gets some paint in them. They may need re-crowning too. I've had two barrels that benefited from re-crowning.
Merry Christmas,
X2 for cleaning the barrel. If that does not improve the groupings, return the guns or call Crosman Customer Service. I have never had a Crosman pistol that shot groups that large at 10 yards rested. You should not have to fuss about with new pistols to get them to shoot more accurately.
Thanks fellas, i have ordered more pellets to try. I did clean the barrels. I should have returned them before I jacked around with them. I made some small improvements to the rear sights. I doubt they would accept them for exchange at this point. I may send them in to be fixed though. The thing is that much shipping and or parts cost would make it not cost effective. I think it must be the barrels because the charging system is very consistant even if the velocity is a little low. I did post a review on Amazon, one of the few negative reviews on there.
It doesn't sound like anything is wrong at all, Art. Most individuals purchase a 2240 due to the incredible amount of modifications that can be preformed. In all honesty, You're comparing a $57.95 gun with a 10.1" barrel vs $465.95 gun with a 20" barrel.
At 10 yards, anything can effect shot patterns with a 10'1 barrel, even clamped in a vice, a stiff breeze could throw the pellet trajectory off by the distances you've mentioned on paper. I believe one of the upgrades individuals generally do, is a 14" barrel upgrade and a steel breech kit. 8)
Quote from: airguns100 on December 24, 2012, 11:21:04 PM
It doesn't sound like anything is wrong at all, Art. Most individuals purchase a 2240 due to the incredible amount of modifications that can be preformed. In all honesty, You're comparing a $57.95 gun with a 10.1" barrel vs $465.95 gun with a 20" barrel.
At 10 yards, anything can effect shot patterns with a 10'1 barrel, even clamped in a vice, a stiff breeze could throw the pellet trajectory off by the distances you've mentioned on paper. I believe one of the upgrades individuals generally do, is a 14" barrel upgrade and a steel breech kit. 8)
airguns100, thanks for the reply. Sorry if I wasn't clear in my first post. I'm not interested in starting an air pistol project right now, although I would love to in the future. My immediate goal is to have some fun shooting airgun sized silhouettes in the back yard. I didn't mean to compare the Marauder rifle to the 2240. I was using the MRod to verify that the pellets were ok. Also I did account for the wind by moving indoors when I tested the guns in the vise. I totally get that a stock 2240 is going to have shortcomings, but there were so many positive reviews reporting the accuracy to be excellent that I was convinced they would do the trick. A 2" group at 10 yds is not acceptable for any pistol as far as I'm concerned except maybe an airsoft pistol. I viewed a couple of video reviews in which the stock 2240 got 1" or less groups at 10 yds, one with the same pellets as mine. Groups of 1" would give you a good chance of scoring hits on the chicken targets which are about 1.5"X1" at 10 yds. With groups of 2", hitting a chicken would be mostly luck and not fun at all. I hope that clears up the situation.
So the plan is to try some different pellets and if that doesn't work I will be asking for recommendations.
yeah that happens sometimes there are lemons
i had one but after i put a new barrel on it it was back to one holing it.
there is a 12" barrel available so far no bad complaints .it will bring your power up some and give you a longer sight picture
the barrels are cheap around $10-$12 plus $4 shipping
you can lighten the trigger pull and leave it alone if you wish
Quote from: ingrahal on December 26, 2012, 03:49:19 AM
airguns100, thanks for the reply. Sorry if I wasn't clear in my first post. I'm not interested in starting an air pistol project right now, although I would love to in the future. My immediate goal is to have some fun shooting airgun sized silhouettes in the back yard. I didn't mean to compare the Marauder rifle to the 2240. I was using the MRod to verify that the pellets were ok. Also I did account for the wind by moving indoors when I tested the guns in the vise. I totally get that a stock 2240 is going to have shortcomings, but there were so many positive reviews reporting the accuracy to be excellent that I was convinced they would do the trick. A 2" group at 10 yds is not acceptable for any pistol as far as I'm concerned except maybe an airsoft pistol. I viewed a couple of video reviews in which the stock 2240 got 1" or less groups at 10 yds, one with the same pellets as mine. Groups of 1" would give you a good chance of scoring hits on the chicken targets which are about 1.5"X1" at 10 yds. With groups of 2", hitting a chicken would be mostly luck and not fun at all. I hope that clears up the situation.
So the plan is to try some different pellets and if that doesn't work I will be asking for recommendations.
I comprehend completely , Art.
As 1377 mentioned: -unfortunately- sometimes a lemon can sneak past quality control.
I honestly hope that's not the case with your newly acquired plinker, and it's just something simple. I remember reading about a situation with person that had the exact same issues with their 2240, apparently the barrel had a small burr around the feed, it caused the pellet to deform upon loading, equalling wild shot patterns, i believe barrel change or a quick high speed polish cured the problem.
If a new tin of pellets doesn't remedy the situation, and even though you've taken the gun apart, I believe Crosman might still perform a "repair" if you make it clear your not looking for a refund and you'd be willing to cover shipping? if all else fails.
They seem to be pretty fair about things like that.
keep us informed,
-Rye
Some barrels are very pellet picky. Some will shoot almost anything you put in them. If your new pellets don't perform well, you might try sticking a Q-tip into the barrel crown and pulling it back out. If there are any burrs, the cotton will catch on them. I would try touching up the crown even if there aren't any burrs and if there are, I would re-crown it. As bad as it is shooting,you have nothing to lose, even if you mess it up, you are going to need a new barrel anyway and as Ed mentioned, barrels from Crosman are cheap.
Have a HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Rye, JEbert, I'll take another look at the barrels. One thing I did notice, with the barrel out in my hand, I inserted a pellet and used a rod to push it through. At the chamber it was not smooth going in. Felt like it was catching on the shoulder at the gas port but I didn't know whether this was normal or not. I'll let you all know what I find. Thanks for the suggestions.
Hi ingrahal,
This link has my research on fliers:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/message/1346339543/Fliers+Revisited----%AD (http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/message/1346339543/Fliers+Revisited----%AD)
As far as the barrel, it needs to be clean and the end needs to be good....like this:
(http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh508/WyoMan/FWB2twist2_zps9a9fe6d4.jpg)
This gun shot perfectly......
Wyo, So that's the new Gummy barrel I"ve been hearing about. LOL! :) Nice work on the list. I saved that one to my favorites.
I took another look at the barrels and can't see anything obvious. I'll try honing the shoulder at the transfer port and recrowning one of them. As mentioned I have nothing to lose at this point.
Quote from: ingrahal on December 27, 2012, 03:01:43 AM
Rye, JEbert, I'll take another look at the barrels. One thing I did notice, with the barrel out in my hand, I inserted a pellet and used a rod to push it through. At the chamber it was not smooth going in. Felt like it was catching on the shoulder at the gas port but I didn't know whether this was normal or not. I'll let you all know what I find. Thanks for the suggestions.
sounds like a burr if it damages the pellet at all it will affect accuracy/shooting patterns
Since I'm waiting on the pellets to arrive I thought I'd try to show you what the bore of these barrels looks like. Both barrels pass the cotton swab test for burrs but they seem to have a rough surface on the rifling. When pushing the pellet through the barrel it feels rough even after cleaning.
The edge of the lands in the rifling may be rough (at a micro level).
If so, either a new barrel or a "roto-rooter" with a power drill, coated or alum rod and a bronze brush with JB Bore Paste.
QuoteIf so, either a new barrel or a "roto-rooter" with a power drill, coated or alum rod and a bronze brush with JB Bore Paste
My advice is: DON'T use a drill in it! Just use the JB Bore Paste with a the bronze brush for 20 strokes or so. If you can get a patch wrapped around the brush through the barrel, that would be better but it's gonna be awfully tight. Go in from the breech end to prevent any inadvertent damage to the crown from the cleaning rod. I have polished the roughness out of all of my leades (breech end of the barrel) and my pellets just drop in and the extended bolts seat them.
Have a HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Ok fellas, I tried polishing one of the barrels and it looked much better but did not shoot any better. Convinced these barrels are bad I ordered two 14" barrels from Crooked Barn. I'm going to use the plastic breech for now and see if the barrels solve the problem. I can replace the breeches later. If I replaced the breeches now I would also have to replace the bolt, and rear sight X 2. All of of sudden my $112 purchase turns into $336. Which is not bad at all for what I would have but not what I intended to do starting out. I will keep you posted on how this turns out.
Keep one stock as a reference?
Quote from: ingrahal on December 29, 2012, 01:12:36 AM
Ok fellas, I tried polishing one of the barrels and it looked much better but did not shoot any better. Convinced these barrels are bad I ordered two 14" barrels from Crooked Barn. I'm going to use the plastic breech for now and see if the barrels solve the problem. I can replace the breeches later. If I replaced the breeches now I would also have to replace the bolt, and rear sight X 2. All of of sudden my $112 purchase turns into $336. Which is not bad at all for what I would have but not what I intended to do starting out. I will keep you posted on how this turns out.
Hey, Art. I Was wondering. When you load a pellet, does the bolt push the pellet all the way past the transfer port, or only half way?
airguns100, yes it goes past it.
Ok fellas time for an update. I tried three different pellets beside the Crosman Premier. Pretty much the same results with a slight improvement using the JSB's. By this time I had already ordered 2 14" barrels and 2 extended probe bolts. Due to the holidays it took a while to get them in. I set one gun up and left the other stock. The 14" barrel gives a 5/8" group at 10 yds. The best group I can get with the stock barrel is 1 1/4". Which is better than I was getting at first.
While all of this was going on I bought an ebook, "CO2 Pistols & Rifles" by James E. House. Boy what an eye opener. Many things are going on that I never even considered. The two biggies were temperature and rate of fire. When I first started shooting these guns the daytime temps were in the 30's here in Arkansas. The last few days they have been in the 50's-60's. I think the warmer weathter might explain the improved performance of the stock barrel due to the increase in velocities. Also, I was shooting just as fast I could chamber a pellet and get on target. Which was pretty fast even for a single shot pistol. Subsequent testing on the chrony shows a marked decrease in velocity on each shot when shooting this way. Today I shot each gun over the chrony pausing between shots and warming the tube with my hand. The shot strings were very impressive. The first 35 shots were between 490 and 475. After 40 shots the velocities started falling off rapidly.
Both guns are performing nicely now. I have only shot a few rounds on the silhouette range but so far the results are good. About 12/20 off the bench and about half that offhand. I will probably go ahead and upgrade the breeches and sights but for now I am happy.
Quote from: ingrahal on January 11, 2013, 05:47:19 AMThe two biggies were temperature and rate of fire.
Temperature and rate of fire most certainly can make it appear you had two bad pistols. Next time I see a question posted by a new owner of a CO2 gun with accuracy problems, I am going to have to remember to ask about ambient temperature and how quickly shots were fired.
the reason i went to hpa from co2 i thought the same thing until i realised that
Today I shot each gun over the chrony pausing between shots and warming the tube with my hand. The shot strings were very impressive. The first 35 shots were between 490 and 475. After 40 shots the velocities started falling off rapidly.
Both guns are performing nicely now. I have only shot a few rounds on the silhouette range but so far the results are good. About 12/20 off the bench and about half that offhand. I will probably go ahead and upgrade the breeches and sights but for now I am happy.
Good to see you are doing some research and reading on co2, it will pay off for you big time as you mod your guns and just for the efficiency of shooting them.
70 deg to 90 deg F is kinda the sweet-spot for co2, even at 70 deg, I seldom rapid fire any of e'm, the little valves and tubes chill or ice up quickly even at 70 deg so a lil wait time, even 30 secs bewteen shots helps a lot. :-*
Thanks for the feedback guys. I didn't mention that I was new to CO2. I just said I was new to air pistols. I didn't even realize there was such a big difference. I should have though because I am fairly scientifically minded. Thinking back about the whole thing, there are still some unanswered questions ???. Oh well I'm moving on. I like the 14" barrels, they look pretty cool. :-*
I reread my last post and it was begging for some pics.
nothing wrong with a 14" barrel on a pistol, heck i would go up to 20"
here's a buntline special it has a 16" barrel
I too am new to CO2, I have a pumper and a springer I have shot for years. I just bought a 2240 and am having a ball with it. It is not bad at 15-20 feet, beyond that my eyes have trouble trying to see the target well enough (blurry) while sighting the pistol. I'm waiting on a red dot for it. I ran a phosphor brush down the barrell with bore paste a fwe times and then cleaned it good.
Dave
One thing to remember about cleaning - we should be managing the lead, not removing it completely. Lead provides a nice slippery surface for the pellets, which is why you need to re-lead the barrel, after a thorough cleaning, before accuracy kicks in. As Quickster has pointed out in another thread, you really do not need to clean your barrel (excluding brand new barrels) until you start having accuracy problems. And then, just pulling a few patches through is all you should need to do.
I recall discussions in the past stating that AG barrels are softer than PB barrels so I do no use bore pastes or brushes in my barrels so as to avoid damaging the rifling.
I only used the brush for an initial cleaning as suggested by airgunweb on youtube. He said that a lot of barrels are left dirty, gummy, from the manufacturer, possibly to protect them from rust. I did this on my Trail NP also, and it shoots 1/2" groups at 10 yards after only a hundred rounds. My 2240 already shoots better than I can see, waiting on my red dot to see how good it is at longer than 15 feet. I cannot get a good bead on the target past that with open sights. Further cleanings will be as you suggest, only on loss of accuracy. There is a lot to learn about airguns, much more than I thought when I purchased my first one 30+ years ago.