Crosman Air Pistol Owners Forum

Crosman air pistol - General => Crosman air pistol - General discussion => Topic started by: Tater on January 20, 2013, 04:08:27 AM

Title: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: Tater on January 20, 2013, 04:08:27 AM
New 1377. I started by polishing the sear... cleaned trigger parts, polished up, cleaned again, put moly on contact points, added shims, lighter spring and small guide.
After putting the trigger plate back on (but not the grip), pulling back the handle it does not click into the cocked position. The trigger does not seem to move forward into the shooting position either. Here's a pic and any suggestions are appreciated.

(http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu281/blackhwkfan/Picture010_zps00e14780.jpg)

Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: targettgii on January 20, 2013, 04:18:17 AM
You may have put a shim on that is too thick and it's jamming the trigger.Or if you put a shim on both sides of the trigger that my have done it.I did that myself to try to get the wobble out of the trigger removed one of the shims and it worked fine after that.
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: breakfastchef on January 20, 2013, 04:19:13 AM
9 times out of 10 the grip frame side plate is tight against some or all of the trigger group components. You may need to lose a shim or two or find something thinner like plastics from the recycle bin. I have had the binding problem before.
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: blake.l on January 20, 2013, 04:19:55 AM
Could be wrong but to me looks like the lighter spring is to short, compare to the old one? maybe stretch it a little?
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: Tater on January 20, 2013, 04:37:35 AM
Thanks guys, I'll check all of those things. The pin the trigger pivots on had a metal shim on each side and I added a nylon to each, should I take out the metal stock ones and just use nylon/plastics ones?
I'll stretch the spring a bit too.
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: Crosshairs on January 20, 2013, 04:51:34 AM
The spring is to light and not pushing the sear up enough to catch the hammer IMO.
                           Mike
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: Tater on January 20, 2013, 05:04:11 AM
Alright, I put the original spring in and it works but it's about a 90# pull. I'll try to stretch out the lighter spring and come up with a longer gude.
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: 1377x on January 20, 2013, 05:07:18 AM
you could try cutting a couple coils off the stock spring also it has been done like that before
if you dont want to do that though try stretching the light spring out as suggested above
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: WyoMan on January 20, 2013, 08:16:52 AM
I was going to say the same thing as Chef......
You could be binding up with those shims, one way to tell - loosen
the grip frame cover screws a little and see if it helps if it does then you need smaller shims
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: BigErn on January 20, 2013, 01:59:18 PM
My guess is too many shims and the spring could be too light like others said. Let us know what it was when you figure it out!
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: Tater on January 20, 2013, 09:27:46 PM
It worked with the stock spring so I went back to Ace to get a spring half way between the stock spring and the really light one I got yesterday. It still wasn't working with a guide in it so I stretched it out a bit and took out the guide and it works fine now. Not as light as my other 1377 with a .22 LR guide, but my wife is taking a handgun class for ladies on Tuesday so she will pick up a few shells for me hopefully.
Thanks for the help guys.
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: 1377x on January 20, 2013, 09:42:56 PM
if you dont get the shells let us know
i have some for you if needed
what you can do in the mean time is take some material off the top of the guide just sand it grind it use what you have to remove material
test fit it as you go
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: JEBert on January 21, 2013, 12:26:17 AM
Still sounds like something is in a bind to me.  All of mine would reset long after they stopped passing the bump test with weaker springs.  You didn't change the angle on your sear when you were polishing it did you?
Cheers,
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: cheewee on January 21, 2013, 12:55:46 AM
remove grip frame from tube so you can access the sear and make sure it moves freely
when ever i do my shim adjustments that is how i do it, you want to take any sideways movement from sear but it still needs to move freely. do it with the trigger removed it is easier. once you have the sear good then do the same for the trigger. just snug the side plate screws and check for movement, if when tightened fully sear binds than your shims are still too thick..
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: PC77 on January 21, 2013, 07:35:52 AM
Tater, I also use two  Trigger shims I loosen the front cover screw a little until the trigger works freely. A forum member gave me two rivets for trigger guides that have a flat head and a bevel to keep the spring centered. They worked well. When i was looking around at ace for a guide for my third gun i found some  nylon flat head screws that worked really well the nylon slides very good  on the sear.
pc

(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg95/51colt/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_8908.jpg)
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: PC77 on January 21, 2013, 07:45:37 AM
Tater, I did not understand what you were saying. Try adding a few washers on the the bottom of the spring like in the pic i posted. I think they are #8 washers and loosen the front cover screw a little.
pc
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: Tater on January 21, 2013, 04:25:51 PM
Great ideas guys. I only used 1000 grit wet/dry paper on the sear so doubt I changed the angle. I'll take a check out everything again tomorrow late or Wednesday when I have a .22 shell for a spring guide.
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: Daysailer on January 21, 2013, 04:39:43 PM
PC77,   great idea with the nylon spring guide.

Looks like this idea could be easily refined by playing with the length to leave it long enough
to become a trigger stop too. 

Kind of like the AC trigger parts of yester-year, were sized to make a trigger stop.
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: BDS on January 21, 2013, 05:05:14 PM
+1 to the other gents, find some .002" shim stock, most washers are waaay too thick, even so-called thin ones
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: 1377x on January 21, 2013, 06:17:57 PM
Quote from: PC77 on January 21, 2013, 07:35:52 AM
Tater, I also use two  Trigger shims I loosen the front cover screw a little until the trigger works freely. A forum member gave me two rivets for trigger guides that have a flat head and a bevel to keep the spring centered. They worked well. When i was looking around at ace for a guide for my third gun i found some  nylon flat head screws that worked really well the nylon slides very good  on the sear.
pc

(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg95/51colt/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_8908.jpg)
thats a good idea
if you were to widen the slot in the screw the sear will fall into it like a sear guide too
i have some nylon screws im going to try this with.you know they make good recoil buffers in ruger 10-22's also
i have been using the same nylon screw for two years as a recoil buffer thats why i have extras to in my stock trigger group.might have to turn one down to size
thanks for posting
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: AS13 on January 21, 2013, 06:45:04 PM
I'll go with trigger spring tension. Recently had the same problem with my 2400KT. I modified the spring and had it set so light that the sear would not engage. Adjusted the tension via the spring adjuster (more tension) and it works fine now.
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: 1377x on January 21, 2013, 07:23:08 PM
the only time i had the trigger not reset was when i used shims to thick and tightened same with the sear
i ended up taking the wave washer out of the trigger and used two small shims for the trigger and one shim to keep the sear away from the frame it lined up better with the trigger no shim on the side plate side
no more problem i also doubled up the trigger spring beccause it was to light after it was doubled up it was still nice and light and no more problems
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: BDS on January 21, 2013, 07:52:48 PM
Yes... what 1377 said... the alignment along centerline (looking down at the sear and trigger from above) is important too. Using same thickness shim or washers on backside of both will keep them aligned.
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: cheewee on January 21, 2013, 08:48:33 PM
have tried the nylon screw with the slot enlarged for the sear and it worked quite well, but did end up going back to a rounded brass just seemed to feel better for me.
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: Tater on January 21, 2013, 10:53:00 PM
When I get to Ace again, I'll definitely pick a few nylon screws to try out. It's nice that all this stuff is so cheap there (springs, washers, screws...), makes it easy to experiment.
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: breakfastchef on January 22, 2013, 12:08:02 AM
Have you tried to simply back off the grip frame plate screws yet?
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: arkmaker † on January 22, 2013, 12:34:37 AM
Quote from: cheewee on January 21, 2013, 08:48:33 PM
have tried the nylon screw with the slot enlarged for the sear and it worked quite well, but did end up going back to a rounded brass just seemed to feel better for me.

I wonder if we could get away with using a solid domed top guide or would the sear be trying to slip off one side or the other??

Rich
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: cheewee on January 22, 2013, 02:31:23 AM
Quote from: arkmaker on January 22, 2013, 12:34:37 AM
I wonder if we could get away with using a solid domed top guide or would the sear be trying to slip off one side or the other??

Rich

might be worth a try. when you look at it the sear really doesnt slide much on the guide it really only pushes down on it. mine just has a slight curve on the face.
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: 1377x on January 22, 2013, 09:12:18 AM
Quote from: arkmaker on January 22, 2013, 12:34:37 AM
I wonder if we could get away with using a solid domed top guide or would the sear be trying to slip off one side or the other??

Rich
with shims holding the sear in place and the square channel the spring rides in it will keep things pretty stable even if you dont use the shims for the sear
someone recommended rivets they have a slightly domed top no problems with that.the less surface it has to ride on the smoother it will be
try like a dome screw or something
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: Tater on January 22, 2013, 03:57:01 PM
Quote from: breakfastchef on January 22, 2013, 12:08:02 AM
Have you tried to simply back off the grip frame plate screws yet?
No, it's working fine now. I just need to lighten it up a bit. My wife is picking me up a few .22 shells from a range tonight and tomorrow I'll try adding one in as a guide.
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: BDS on January 22, 2013, 04:43:22 PM
Tater... use an un-fired .22 cal case with no hammer dent on the end. Pull the bullet out with pliers, dump out the powder (not in the ash tray! :D ) and scrape the small amount of primer out of the crimped rim inside with a toothpick, watch, it may pop like a cap gun so hold away from face. Clean out case with a swab and you have a virgin barss with no dent.
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: KevinP on January 22, 2013, 04:52:43 PM
Quote from: BDS on January 22, 2013, 04:43:22 PM
Tater... use an un-fired .22 cal case with no hammer dent on the end. Pull the bullet out with pliers, dump out the powder (not in the ash tray! :D ) and scrape the small amount of primer out of the crimped rim inside with a toothpick, watch, it may pop like a cap gun so hold away from face. Clean out case with a swab and you have a virgin barss with no dent.

would be best to spray a little wd40 in it and let it sit overnight ....
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: Tater on January 22, 2013, 06:22:39 PM
Quote from: BDS on January 22, 2013, 04:43:22 PM
Tater... use an un-fired .22 cal case with no hammer dent on the end. Pull the bullet out with pliers, dump out the powder (not in the ash tray! :D ) and scrape the small amount of primer out of the crimped rim inside with a toothpick, watch, it may pop like a cap gun so hold away from face. Clean out case with a swab and you have a virgin barss with no dent.

Unfortunately, the ones I'm getting tonight will have the dent in them already. The only .22 ammo I have is sub-sonic. I'll check but I think the shells on them are really short.
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: 1377x on January 23, 2013, 05:18:44 PM
Quote from: Tater on January 22, 2013, 06:22:39 PM
Unfortunately, the ones I'm getting tonight will have the dent in them already. The only .22 ammo I have is sub-sonic. I'll check but I think the shells on them are really short.
as long as its long rifle the casing is the same size even if its not the length doesnt matter
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: WyoMan on January 23, 2013, 05:36:04 PM
Quote from: Tater on January 22, 2013, 06:22:39 PM
Unfortunately, the ones I'm getting tonight will have the dent in them already. The only .22 ammo I have is sub-sonic. I'll check but I think the shells on them are really short.
I've used those Tater and then took a dremel to grind / polish...
also helps to put a little taper on the open end so the spring coils will slide over easy  :-*

Ed here's one for your new 100 fpe build  :D
(http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh508/WyoMan/30mm.jpg)
Title: Re: What did I do wrong here?
Post by: 1377x on January 23, 2013, 05:44:35 PM
30mm
might be a little under sized ;) ;D