Finaly caved and "Went for the Steel"!

[Flex]

So, I do understand your explanation of the situation related to the differences in the tube diameters with that of the 2240 and the 13xx series. I just now went to the "man Cave" and checked my 1377 & my 1322 that both were outfitted with a steel breech from Crosman. I'm just not seeing as much "gapage" as you seem to be experiencing. I'm not saying that you're not seeing the differences you describe just that I'm not. I've never considered my upgrades to meet Swiss watch precision. I do suppose that it's possible that the milling of the breech has changed (different milling machine, different contractor etc) over the years. I purchased mine perhaps 10 years ago. Also, this is the first discussion that I recall RE: this issue. If this is a new issue that might explain that. I'm also pretty sure if the issue existed 10+ years ago, there would have been plenty of discussion on this forum. It's possible though, that I either missed it or chose not to care.

[uncletom]

checked my 1377 & my 1322 that both were outfitted with a steel breech from Crosman. I'm just not seeing as much "gapage" as you seem to be experiencing.

I see. Ok, you say that your breeches have less gap on the sides then? Or none at all? I'm curious, please cold you take a photo of your 13xx Crosmans with steel breech from the rear?

I mean, if it works it's good. The Crosmans are quite basic air guns, there's no real need for higher precision. Only, I'm used to powder-guns where even older stuff is dependant on a tight  fit. There there's alot of power involved so you need a solid, well made peice. Though I should perhaps not compare the two categories, twas only an observation.

[Flex]

I see. Ok, you say that your breeches have less gap on the sides then? Or none at all? I'm curious, please cold you take a photo of your 13xx Crosmans with steel breech from the rear?

I mean, if it works it's good. The Crosmans are quite basic air guns, there's no real need for higher precision. Only, I'm used to powder-guns where even older stuff is dependant on a tight  fit. There there's alot of power involved so you need a solid, well made peice. Though I should perhaps not compare the two categories, twas only an observation.

I will get a few pics and post them but it won't be this weekend, sorry. Earlier in this thread, when I pulled the 1377 & 1322 out of the locker to check for the gap, I thought about using a feeler gauge for a precise measurement but didn't have the time to dig out the gauge. Perhaps I'll do that in addition to the pics. Sound good?

[uncletom]

Yes please take some close up photos of your breeches at rear, just where you can see the breech meet the main body is where the gap will be most visible. Take your time, we're not in a hurry.

[Flex]

Here are a couple of pics of my 1377. The concave arc on the steel breech mates nicely with the convex arc of the tube!  There may be a very slight amount of "gapage" but the arcs of each appear to be parallel You cannot view this attachment.You cannot view this attachment.

[uncletom]

Thanks for great photos. Now this is interesting, seems your breech fits perfectly. I can't see any gap whatsoever.

When were your 1377 made? Is it an older model, or newer? And did you convert it to steel breech, it had a plastic breech when bought? Could you please measure the diamater of the main body of your 1377 to check if it's not by any chance wider than other Crosmans 1377?

This means that there are either breeches that are specifically made for the 1377, or that some 1377 have a wider body like the CO2 guns from Crosman. I'm confused.

[uncletom]

I measured my Crosmans outer diameter of main body, 2240 and 1322. Both are new, bought online here in Sweden from an outdoors and sporting goods store. I figure these would be of a newly manufactured batch as they come these days.

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and here's the difference (in mm, and inch). We clearly see why the breech should have different radius on the mating side with the main body.

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I just don't understand why they sell steel breeches ".. for Crosman 2240 and 1322", for the same gun as they clearly will have a different fit depending on the model.
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And here's what it says on >> Crosman's page <<
"Now you, the airgun hobbyist, can attach your favorite dovetail accessories to your 2240, 2250, 2260, 2289, 1322, and C362 airgun. This Steel Breech kit not only has a superior look, but it alleviates the need to purchase separate parts. With an all-steel construction, it provides durability which in turn may improve your accuracy. With just the use of the two hex wrenches included and a flat-head screwdriver, this breech will be attached and ready for your accessories.

Does NOT support mounting of original rear sight
WILL support mounting of the LPA MIM sight
Dovetail groove
This kit may be attached to Crosman airgun model numbers 2240, 2250, 2260, 2289, 1322, and C362"

So they say that same breech "may be attached to" both a 2240 as well as a 1322. I will be emailing them about it.

[Flex]

Well, I agree that this is an interesting situation. I took measurements of my older 1377 (2nd variant), 1377c, 1322c, 2289 (BackPacker) and 2240 (backbred to .177cal) and found that all of the tube diameters were very similar to the measurements that you obtained (perhaps a few hundredths of a mm different). The diameter of the steel breeches on each (except for the 1377(2nd variant) that is still with its OEM breech) all measure ~18.88 (+/- a few hundredths) mm. You didn't post the diameters of yours but I would imagine that the measurements would be similar. Are the steel breeches that you bought an actual Crosman product? I.E. made in the USA and imported to Europe or manufactured elsewhere? That may be the issue.
I was wondering if, in fact, there's a different breech for the 1377? I can't imagine that though since the tube diameters for the 1377 & 1322 are the same. If a product is said to fit models 2240, 2260 & 1322, it should also fit on model 1377.
As I said at the beginning of this reply, "this is an interesting situation".

[Flex]

Well, I agree that this is an interesting situation. I took measurements of my older 1377 (2nd variant), 1377c, 1322c, 2289 (BackPacker) and 2240 (backbred to .177cal) and found that all of the tube diameters were very similar to the measurements that you obtained (perhaps a few hundredths of a mm different). The diameter of the steel breeches on each (except for the 1377(2nd variant) that is still with its OEM breech) all measure ~18.88 (+/- a few hundredths) mm. You didn't post the diameters of yours but I would imagine that the measurements would be similar. Are the steel breeches that you bought an actual Crosman product? I.E. made in the USA and imported to Europe or manufactured elsewhere? That may be the issue.
I was wondering if, in fact, there's a different breech for the 1377? I can't imagine that though since the tube diameters for the 1377 & 1322 are the same. If a product is said to fit models 2240, 2260 & 1322, it should also fit on model 1377.
As I said at the beginning of this reply, "this is an interesting situation".

A quick postscript. A discussion on the Gateway to Airguns forum, dealt with this issue. The reply stated that the Crosman breeches are made to fit the tube on the 2240 (and the others with the same diameter tube) but that they will fit the 13xx series. The issues that you are experiencing is mentioned with the fit on the 13xx series pumpers. The post was from just over two years ago. Why the breeches on my airguns seem to fit better is still a mystery.

[uncletom]

Why the breeches on my airguns seem to fit better is still a mystery.

Thanks for measuring your guns, and posting. I just measured the steel breeches (pipe diameter) of my 2240XL and my 2300S, both measure the same which is 18,95 mm, that is the smaller pipe of which the breeches are made. Though its diameter is of less importance than the radius of its mount (milled) surface that then attaches to the main body of the gun.

I brought the matter to Crosman's attention and have already received a reply. My question was:

"Hello, I wonder why you sell the "CROSMAN .22 CAL STEEL BREECH KIT" with information that it will attach to both the 2240 and as well as the 1322 models, as they clearly have different diameter of outer body. Mounting the steel breech on a 1322 will leave a gap along the sides as the body of a 1322 has a smaller diameter than the 2240.

Are there steel breeches with two different radius for either the 13xx series pump-guns, or the 22xx series CO2-guns?"

Crosman's reply was:

"Hello Thomas, Yes, the tubes are slightly different size but it is still compatible and will function on both models."

So my conclusion is that todays breeches are exactly the same, with difference only in the bolt depending on what caliber it's for, and that your 1377 is an older model with an older type breech that was made for the thinner pipe diameter of the pump guns 13xx series. I guess they cut the cost of manufacturing the pump guns by using the same breeches on 13xx and 22xx and 2300 models. Infact it annoys me deeply.

[uncletom]

For record I will share my correspondence here in this matter. I've just made a small request to Crosman regarding revising the 'new' design of their American Classic:

"Thank you for your prompt reply.
Then I understand why the available breeches have poor fit on the 13xx pump-guns. It is unfortunate. So, I have one request for you. Respectfully, will you please consider manufacturing additional breech types, both plastic and of steel, that will fit the 13xx pump-guns, I have seen photos of older 1377 models with a steel breech that has a perfect fit ontop the pipe.

I understand that it is a matter of cost and for that reason a simplified design has been implemented. However, Crosman air guns have a long history of great products, in particular the American Classic pump gun, which is why it would bring me, and fellow enthusiasts, great joy to see the American Classic assembled of parts that would not easilly give away any compromise such as the gap between the breech and the main body.

If you would please see to it that my request is forwarded to the proper instance, thank you."

Let's hope they will accommodate.

[uncletom]

Silence this far.

I'm still hoping.

[Flex]

TBCH, I believe that your chances of getting Crosman to introduce a steel breech that better fits the 13xx series pumpers is remote but there is no harm in pursuing the issue. Have you considered having the ill-fitting breech milled for a better fit? Having some steel removed from the middle of the radiused portion of the breech might allow the gap at the edges to appear less obvious but, of course, it won't ever be perfect. I do realize that milling a breech made for a 13xx to better fit a 22xx CO2 model would have better results.
Am I correct in your belief that, in the past, either there were breeches made specifically for the 13xx series airguns? Or that the valve tubes on older 13xx airguns had a larger diameter than the current 13xx series airguns?

[crossliner]

Silence this far.

I'm still hoping.

Do you own a 1377?

I checked mine, as I have several in OEM and aftermarket in stainless (Don Cothran), especially the 22xx ones.

I also own OEM and Don Cothran breeches, and I just could not see the point of your complaint about the "gapage" 'cuz there is none that I could see.

The breeches, OEM and Don's, don't look off atop my 13xx tube nor on the 22xx ones, and no, I don't have a plastic breech for reference; I probably gave them away.

Anyway, it actually looks, the steel breech being of smaller diameter than both tube sizes, better on the  13xx's and more proportioned, IMHO.

On the other hand, the 17xx breech, i.e., PROD and 1701P/1720T, were definitely and perfectly made for the 22xx/17xx tubes (they're identical in diameter).

Out of curiosity, I tried it on a 13xx tube, and I certainly saw the "gapage", lol!

[Flex]

Do you own a 1377?

I checked mine, as I have several in OEM and aftermarket in stainless (Don Cothran), especially the 22xx ones.

I also own OEM and Don Cothran breeches, and I just could not see the point of your complaint about the "gapage" 'cuz there is none that I could see.

The breeches, OEM and Don's, don't look off atop my 13xx tube nor on the 22xx ones, and no, I don't have a plastic breech for reference; I probably gave them away.

Anyway, it actually looks, the steel breech being of smaller diameter than both tube sizes, better on the  13xx's and more proportioned, IMHO.

On the other hand, the 17xx breech, i.e., PROD and 1701P/1720T, were definitely and perfectly made for the 22xx/17xx tubes (they're identical in diameter).

Out of curiosity, I tried it on a 13xx tube, and I certainly saw the "gapage", lol!

A few comments / questions.
As I mentioned in an earlier post to this thread, I too, am not seeing the degree of "gapage" that uncletom is describing. The photos that I posted of my airguns show a near perfect fit.
It was mentioned that a breech for a 17xx series pellet gun was mounted on a 13xx valve tube AND the "gapage" was present. Are the breeches for the 17xx models significantly different than those for the 22xx & 13xx series models? Answering my own question, that appears to be the case! It seems then, that uncletom has somehow received (erroneously) the wrong breech. Is this a possibility? It certainly would explain his situation.