Thinking About A First Scope

[KurtM]

Greetings! The thread title sums it up: I'm considering buying a scope for the first time, to be used on either my modded 1377 or modded 1322. The guns are twins, both similarly modified to include Crosman shoulder stock, long steel breech and 14.5" barrel, plus Alchemy barrel band, mini muzzle brake, etc. The 1377 currently has an LSA rear sight, and the 1322 a Williams peep sight.

Having long experience with telescopes, microscopes, cameras, binoculars, loupes, etc., etc., I know my way around optical jargon and performance reasonably well. I'm thinking 4X30 sounds about perfect: light on the magnification, generous of aperture, relatively compact unit. I've dug around in the archives but see a lot of apparently obsolete information so I thought I'd ask here, even at  the risk of asking a worn out question for the nineteenth billion time.

What do y'all like, use, recommend, wave off from, etc.,? Cost isn't a huge factor, although it'd take some convincing to go past 1 BTU. BTU = $100, or one Basic Toy Unit. And while I don't mind inexpensive, I do wish to avoid cheap POS (pretty sure we all know what that stands for) in favor of reasonably robust quality.

[temchik]

What is your intended use for the scope?

My, albeit limited, experience tells me mildots are pretty essential in an airgun scope, as well as AO for range estimation and parallax correction, although you could do without the latter.

I have this one https://www.amazon.com/UTG-Hunter-Scope-Mil-dot-Airgun/dp/B00ATCTZLY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1483987192&sr=8-2&keywords=utg+4x32+ao and it's a nice scope for the money, but I've only shot targets with it up to 20yrds so far, just prefer open sights for the challenge.

I've used cheapo Walmart scopes in the past but couldn't get them to hold zero

I'll let others with more experience weigh in

[CraigH]

On pistol-based carbines I am inclined to use UTG Bug Buster compact scopes.  They are of better proportions for compact carbines.

Here is a BB 3-9x-32AO vs a full size BSA 2-7x32AO.  The BSA was on this carbine; it was not of outrageous size, but clearly larger.

[CraigH]

Forgot to add;  Adjustable Objective (AO) scopes, with the ability to focus close and correct parallax at various distances are a must.   (It is possible to reset most non AO scopes for a specific closer distance)

[KurtM]

What is your intended use for the scope?

Just a dumb ol' country boy shooting at (invasive species) sparrows, starlings, etc., knocking squirrels off the feeders, and such. As for target shooting, just enough to sight in, and become reasonably confident of where the lead's going. As for what range, however far the varmint's at, I guess. Up to 30-40 yards, with a few hail mary lobs to 50 yards thrown in to keep it lively? Mostly just amusing myself here. Gotta say, I'm astounded and delighted at the 13XX accuracy - wow!

I've never owned a scope, been shooting open sights for 50+ years. But the ol' eyesight's going to hell so I thought I'd give optical assistance a whirl. I don't care about the finer points at the moment, figuring any old scope of reasonable quality will teach me what I need to know better and faster than a thousand pages of reading.

I'm looking at the NcStar 4X30 Tactical Compact Scope as a pretty good looking start point, since it's not too expensive, low magnification, fairly large aperture, compact in size, and not too heavy. But what I'm unclear on is:

1. Will it work for me optically, on a 13XX carbine setup? As in, eye relief about right?
2. It appears that I might oughta think about rings too, right? Wonder what to look for, that'll work with the Crosman long steel breech? Yes, I should do my homework, but am secretly hoping a friend who knows all this stuff can just rattle it off the top of his head for me.
3. I understand crosshairs get tough to see under low light, so is illuminated reticle a good thing, or are they more hassle than they're worth due to unreliability issues? One of the things I love about open sights is they almost never don't work. The "mil dot" type of crosshairs look best to me, but what do more experienced scope shooters think?
4. Other related accessories that are a really good idea? Those attached flip-up dust caps, for instance, look pretty convincing to me.

[KurtM]

Forgot to add;  Adjustable Objective (AO) scopes, with the ability to focus close and correct parallax at various distances are a must.   (It is possible to reset most non AO scopes for a specific closer distance)

Whoops, Craig answered while I was typing my last post. AO is a must, you say? I read about that a little while back, better go back and review. Thanks!

[temchik]

1. You will probably need a cheek riser of some sort to align better with the scope.
2. Rings are important, make sure you either get 11mm (I think, please correct me if I'm wrong) rings or you will have to use an adapter to picatinny rail. Some scopes come with rings already like those UTG ones and they work fine. Crosman steel breech is rather cramped. I personally really don't like to have the scope rings on both sides of the loading port, but the compact may be too far to move it to the front. Google some pictures of 1377/1322 with a scope to get an idea of different placement methods
3. Illuminated reticle is good, needs a battery. Batteries last a long time though, so I wouldn't be too concerned with it.

I used to have an NcStar red dot - utter garbage. No experience with their scopes

I'm looking at the NcStar 4X30 Tactical Compact Scope as a pretty good looking start point, since it's not too expensive, low magnification, fairly large aperture, compact in size, and not too heavy. But what I'm unclear on is:

1. Will it work for me optically, on a 13XX carbine setup? As in, eye relief about right?
2. It appears that I might oughta think about rings too, right? Wonder what to look for, that'll work with the Crosman long steel breech? Yes, I should do my homework, but am secretly hoping a friend who knows all this stuff can just rattle it off the top of his head for me.
3. I understand crosshairs get tough to see under low light, so is illuminated reticle a good thing, or are they more hassle than they're worth due to unreliability issues? One of the things I love about open sights is they almost never don't work. The "mil dot" type of crosshairs look best to me, but what do more experienced scope shooters think?
4. Other related accessories that are a really good idea? Those attached flip-up dust caps, for instance, look pretty convincing to me.

[temchik]

CraigH,

Are those stock rings on that Bug Buster? looks incredibly cramped... Is loading a pain?

On pistol-based carbines I am inclined to use UTG Bug Buster compact scopes.  They are of better proportions for compact carbines.

Here is a BB 3-9x-32AO vs a full size BSA 2-7x32AO.  The BSA was on this carbine; it was not of outrageous size, but clearly larger.

[CraigH]

They are UTG medium height airgun (dovetail) 6-screw rings.  Two things about Bug Busters, one, they come with QD (Weaver I think) rings, not airgun/.22 rimfire rings, and two, since they are compact there is not much ring space on the scopes.  But, the eye relief is a good fit for me.   UTG also makes a narrower 3-screw airgun ring set (as do other manufacturers).  Most any scope makes pellet loading more challenging, especially for the dexterity challenged (like me).   

[KurtM]

Ouch, that ain't good - my 1377 is already a complete PITA for me to load because I can barely see the little .177's without my geezer glasses, and they seem to love getting caught sideways in the breech and jamming if I don't get 'em in just so, which takes a ramrod to dislodge. I have a new SS probe on the way from Alchemy, hope it helps.

Man, I wish I could get a look at a 13XX with a scope. I hate having to buy it to see if it works well for me and I like it.

Is it possible to easily swap from scope to open sights, assuming the Bug Buster? Which comes with quick release rings?

[temchik]

Might I suggest a compact red dot? You can mount it without obstructing the loading port

[CraigH]

The quick release rings/mounts do not fit on the dovetail of the steel breech - they are much wider.  I do not know if there is a dovetail QD mount (not so likely).   There are dovetail to weaver rails to enable mounting.  Look on the Leapers and other websites.

Moving to the red dots and reflex sights mentioned, any recommendations of small, reasonable priced reflex sights with 11 mm /3/8" dovetail mounts?

[temchik]

Actually, come to think about it, most red-dots you can get in this price range are 4 MOA dots (3 at best), so at 100 yards the dot itself is going to cover a 4" circle. 1" at 25 yards - not sure if this is an acceptable accuracy for hunting (I don't hunt, so no idea). I once saw a 2 MOA red dot on Pyramid Air but I can't find it anymore, the dot would be pretty tiny though, you may have trouble seeing it

[KurtM]

Think I'd rather stick to open sights than go red dot. But a scope, now just sounds like fun. I do love me some optics, to put it in ultra cool hip and trendy lingo.

[BillK]

I like a Bug Buster as the additional magnification is sometimes handy. (if you have the time)
For a nice light scope I like the :  http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Hawke_Sport_Optics_4X32_AO_Sport_HD_Rifle_Scope_Mil_Dot_Reticle_1_4_MOA_1_Tube/5165
Hawk 4-x32 AO  It just works for me.