Vigilante?

[oldgearhead]

I saw a rather nice one on Ebay shipped to me for $30. Since I've been looking at CO2 powered repeaters for a while now I thought I might take the plunge.
1) First impression - Holy Harry Callahan! This thing is big! I'm not sure my medium-sized arthritic hands can hold this monster.
2) Accuracy - Very nice. 90% go into a 4 inch square at 25 feet. Most of my shots are at 30 feet (bird feeders), I think this will be fine. If I want to kill something (red Pine squirrels), I'll use 11 pumps on the 1377 carbine
3) Appearance - Not bad for a used one. Their is some paint chipped off near the hammer slot, but all-in-all pretty good looking.
4) Function - Held co2 fine for three days now. Trigger pull is rough, single action, I'm afraid double action might be too much for me just now.
5) Don't like - The fact that it indexes with a small bump or effort after a shot is fired. Is this normal? How do you get the gun to index straight through a magazine? If I lay it down it wants to index. Is the cylinder plate spring-loaded detent the only thing that keeps the cylinder in place during breaks in shooting? Do I need a new face plate detent and spring?

     

[mudduck48]

You got a pretty good deal on that one. A while back I bought a referb from AGD. They still have them, but a little more than what you paid.

http://www.airgundepot.com/crosman-vigilante-revolver.html

[Multigunner]

The vigilante has an upgraded valve assembly design, few valve parts interchange between the vigilante and the parent 357 first variation.
If I'm not mistaken the spring loaded gasket/locator is the same for both versions.
The spring tension itself gives minimal holding force, gas pressure holds the locator firmly against the cylinder breech when fired. There's little to hold the cylinder indexed when not cocked so it turns with little resistance while cocking, that's normal.
If there is no resistance at all that's not so normal.
Be sure the barrel breech is fairly firmly pressed against the cylinder face when the barrel shroud is locked in place. A loosely fitting barrel can allow too much end play.

There's also a small shelf on the barrel shroud at the bottom of the cylinder opening, if that's worn down or not present, and it is missing altogether from one of my 357 shrouds, there's way too much slack and end play making indexing hit or miss.

There are ways to tighten the barrel lock up, you may find a tutorial on the net or on youtube.

PS
Try a different cylinder/clip, that may be enough to cure the problem. These short cylinder clips are not all that durable and are meant to be replaced when they show signs of wear.

[rangerfredbob]

 if you get THIS or can find some more reasonably the grip will shrink substantially... the original 357 is the same frame and the grips were just side covers like on a 13XX instead of covering the whole thing... there's black and brown versions...

[Multigunner]

if you get THIS or can find some more reasonably the grip will shrink substantially... the original 357 is the same frame and the grips were just side covers like on a 13XX instead of covering the whole thing... there's black and brown versions...

I'm pretty sure that the first variation 357 grips won't fit the vigilante or second variation 357 grip frames. That's the major difference in the metal frame itself. Most if not all intenal mechanical parts will interchange though the mainspring of the vigilante is said to be stronger due to the different valve assembly.

[rangerfredbob]

I have both, will compare them side by side tomorrow... I'm 95% sure the grips are a direct swap. The old 38C and T are completely different than the 357 if that's what you are thinking of, the original 357 and the Vigilante are mostly just a barrel housing change, the second generation 357 has the same grips as the Vigilante. The first gen 357 the only thing that holds the left grip on is the CO2 cart, the right side is a single screw.

[Multigunner]

I just compared my 357 grip frame to images of the Vigilante grip frame and the difference in profile is very obvious.
The vigilante frame back strap and front strap are sloped progressively to the bottom to provide clearance for the wrap around grip.

If a wooden wrap around grip were made there would be room to alter its profile to more closely resemble the old Colt python grip styling of the first variation 357. The straps then would still not be visible.

[oldgearhead]

Also there is no tapped hole on the Vigilante for the right 357 grip attachment screw. The Vigilante has only the 4 slots for the grip attachments. The old 357 grips will not easily interchange with the Vigilante grips. I am impressed with how well the Vigilante holds CO2 and its accuracy. I think I will keep it and use 2 hands and the left forearm to support this monster.
'Muligunner - Your observation of the operation appears to agree with mine. The clip is held in position, between shots with the spring-loaded detent only.     

[rangerfredbob]

I stand corrected... they changed the front of the casting for the grip, the back strap is the same, and as for the tapped hole, they did take out most of the boss for that hole, there is some material but you would have to get creative...

[Multigunner]

The back strap looks to be tapered a bit as well, not as noticeably as the front strap. If one wished to custom fit 357 grips to the vigilante frame they could build up front and back straps with JB Weld and file and sand to match the grip profile then re paint.
One might as well go starkers with the new paint job while they are at it. I always liked the blue cast of Daisy pistols, Midnight Blue automotive paint should look very close to the old Colt charcoal bluing used with their higher priced handguns.

Only real advantage to using the vigilante frame for a custom job would be that it doesn't have the huge billboard cast into the side plate like that of the 357.

I once owned a Colt military .38 Target large framed pistol with oversized target grips with thumb rest. I miss that old pistol now. Can't believe I actually gave it away as a gift to a friend, but he was a great friend and certainly appreciated the gift.
Basically it was the same gun as a Python only without the under lug barrel. Hand assembled with the Military Inspector's cartouche.

[oldgearhead]

While browsing Wally World yesterday, I saw a copy, without the 'Vigilante' name on either the package or the right side of the barrel, it was called the Crosman CR357. Do they think that 'Vigilante' is not politically correct enough for Wal-Mart. So I got curious and looked up 'Crosman pistol' on their (Wal-Mart's) website: ..and yes they list both models, but the CR357 is $2.00 cheaper than the 'Vigilante'. So I searched the Crosman website and no Co2 pistol called the 'CR357'. I guess Crosman has two models: One for Wal-Mart and one for everyone else, like 'Pump-master' and the 'American Classic' 1377. What next? Maybe another buy out? 
About the used Vigilante I bought:
1) It has held CO2 for three weeks and 53 shots, but hit's on the tin can are becoming anemic.
2) Tightening the hinge screw made a big difference in the lock up. It is very solid now.
3) Lubing the sear and hammer from the outside (duck's mod) has made the trigger a bit better, but I don't think it will be up to the 38T's quality without internal mods. Has anyone filed the sear-trigger area? 
   

[Multigunner]

None of my Crosman revolvers required any polishing of the sears for a good trigger pull. Its possible that the extra strong hammer spring of the Vigilante results in a heavier trigger pull.

In any case never use a file on a sear or hammer, use only a fine grit very flat whet rock or very fine emery paper glued to a small mirror or glass plate, one thick enough not to break. A metal plate could also be used, so long as the surface is as flat and hard as possible.
Unless you've had some practice you should probably leave well enough alone. Its easy to get the angles wrong and ruin a sear.

[oldgearhead]

You are correct about being careful. Many years ago I took a file to the sear of 12 gauage auto. I was surprised the next time I yelled 'Pullll", full auto bang, bang. It's a good thing that only two shells per station are loaded in registered skeet..I bought a new sear...

[oldgearhead]

I guess this Vigilante is just too big for me. I like the accuracy, solid lock-up, co2 system, co2 shot count, and the look.But my hands are just too small for it. Would a 38T fit me better? Does anyone who has both have any insight?

[Multigunner]

The grip of the 38T is as big or bigger than that of the 357, both seem to me to be bulkier than the vigilante grip but I can't say for sure.
This was only a problem when I was a youngster before my hands really began to grow. As an adult I have rather long fingers so the grips are perfect for me.

The grip of the second variant 38T seems slimmer than that of the first variation. The frame of the first variation seems a hair thicker and heavier than the transitional (1 1/2?) or last versions.

If you were to get a late version 38T you would have the advantage of being able to make or have made a set of flatter grip panels to suit your hands. I've seen images of quite a few 38T with custom wooden grips, and also a number of 357 with custom wooden grips.

The 38T is a hefty handful, if anything heavier than the real steel counter part the K38 target pistol. It was originally designed as a military and police trainer not intended for kids or casual plinkers.
Its trainer origin is carried over in its sturdy , simple and apparently infinitely restorable nearly all metal construction. These will still be trucking when all basically plastic bodied  airguns have gone to that great landfill in the sky.