Scoping a 1377: What's it's useful range?

[tookiebrookie]

To mount and sight a scope, one needs to know the gun's useful range to set the zero distance at middle of the useful range.  From what I've read, most air rifles are sighted in at about 30 yards (the zero distance).  It seems using this guideline for the American Classic would be like comparing the proverbial apples to oranges.  So, at what distance and for what range should a scoped 1377 be sighted?  

That's the simple version of my question.  Now for the complicated one.  First, (mainly what I am interested in) what distance and range for an unmodified, out-of-the-box gun?  Next, I suppose the question should be asked for different usual mods: Barrel lengths, piston mods, porting, etc.  (The answers could make up a whole matrix of numbers!).

To slide further down the slippery slope, how about for a .22 conversion or 1322?

It seems like the answers should NOT depend on the the scope, since a gun's "useful range" is related to the gun's performance.  Obviously, the answers depend on what distance and range you plan on using the gun (within the gun's limits).  Partly, the answers may depend on what you plan on using the gun for (targets, plinking, hunting, stinging pests, etc.).  

As complicated as this question may be, many of us use or will use a scope on these guns and we need to know what distance(s) to use to sight them in.

Thank you in advance for your variety of responses!

[quickster47 †]

Well the first thing we would need to know, which can only come from you, is what is your intended target?  Are you going to be punching paper, shooting vermin, silhouette shooting, field target competitions or what?  Please provide a little more information.

Carl

[packrat]

Sounds to me as if you're making a mountain out of a mole-hill, so to speak...Sight it in for 25 yards and shoot it, shoot it, shoot it. If you find that 25 yards is too far or too close, then adjust accordingly

[Daysailer]

Your useful range will be dependant upon how many times pumped
Thats the beauty of 'pumpers'    
Stock;
3 = 360 ish
4 = 415 ish
5 = 440 ish
.
7 = 490 ish    etc  ..... useful range is variable  

------------

Don't know if this will be helpful........ but...

All three of my stock 1377's, "82', '09 and '10, Easily & Regularly hit a 2" ball of foam
at 20 yards, two hand standing (no rest),  with 3 pumps and open sights.  3 pumps= 360 -381fps
depending on the gun.  Two are stock notch and blade,  other is stock front blade with
Williams WGRS peep.  
No mods (so far) except the '09 has a steel Crosman breech for the peep.  The '82 shoots the hardest.

So, if you scope a 1377 and 'pump it up' a bit more, 25 - 30 yards should be kindergarten easy.  

Have fun....SAFELY  

[eric]

to further DS's comment --- power/velocity can change the distance you are shooting .will your gun be stock ? 

[tookiebrookie]

Okay, the manuals with my feature-packed scopes don't explain how to use them.  I, and most people, wouldn't know what to do without information from the internet.
Reading articles on how to sight in, the ones I have read describe how to do it with air rifles at 30 yards.  I haven't come across anything for sighting in a scope for a pistol to apply to the 1377.  The problem is, the effective range of an air pistol is nothing like the range of an air rifle. The NRA shows air pistol competition targets for 10 meters(10.8 yards) and for BB guns at 5 meters.  Does that mean most of those types of guns can be expected to be accurate at those ranges?

Intuitively, I know the zero range for a scope of a virgin 1377 should be about 10 - 15 yards.  I would guess a heavily power-modded version with a longer barrel should probably be sighted in up to about 25 yards.  I was hoping experienced shooters on this forum could provide some guidance for what the average shooter could expect with a scope on a 1377.

How can one know what to expect from the various features on scopes?  I thought I had parallax figured out on the AO thing, then I learned that AO markings are also a good estimate of range.  I think most shooters expect to hit what they are aiming at when the crosshairs or reticles line up with the target.  But then there are those mil dot things; you find out that a scope that is sighted in doesn't necessarily mean you will hit the bullseye!  You may have to line up with one of those dots, depending on the distance.  You begin to wish you had paid attention in geometry class, with all that stuff about minutes of angle and formulas for using the clicks on on the scope's elevation adjustment.  You wonder, If my scope is sighted in for 15 yards and I want to shoot at something at 3 yards (as a "Bug Buster" scope is supposed to be good for), do I use the dots above or below the crosshairs?  How many dots for what distance?  How do you use the dots if the target is 35 yards away?  Do I have to adjust the elevation every time the distance of my target changes?  Does an AO scope do that automatically?  Now I read about adjustable turrets.  The manual with my scope doesn't say anything about that, even though the adjustments are marked and the turrets have an adjustable zero.

I guess I'll just zero my scope at 15 yards, set the elevation turret to zero at that range, and shoot a lot of pellets to figure out the index numbers and marks for various ranges, unless I get advice on a better way to do it.

[1377x]

i sighted my 1377 scope in at 10 yards and use it out to 25 yds no problems
i use it on paper, plastic and fur

[quickster47 †]

Couple of sights that might give an eye on scopes.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/choosing_sights.htm
http://www.chuckhawks.com/mil-dot_scopes.htm
http://pyramydair.com/site/articles/ao-meaning/
http://fuzzylimey.net/projects/parallax.html

Carl

[NorthStaR]

If you zero in at X, then X is the best point of accuracy. In extremes of close or far shots a decrease/increase of
elevation from X will be required. Further = higher, closer = lower. If its a mildot then the little markers can help you
adjust for +/- . What X is, can be defined as A: the distance you plan on shooting and B: the spec of the scope.
Wherever you zero it would be within the range of the scope and gun and relative to your potential target distance. A rule of 3.

The rest really is down to the specific attributes of that particular scope.
And a scope much like a pistol or rifle is only ever as good as the person using it and the quality of the product used.

Nothing is automatic. Unless you are lucky and it is setup to the same as your required shooting distance, rifle/pistol et cetera.

The NRA shows air pistol competition targets for 10 meters(10.8 yards) and for BB guns at 5 meters. 
Does that mean most of those types of guns can be expected to be accurate at those ranges?

No, well to an extent anyway. It is down to the spec of the pistol, and more important, the skill of the person pulling the trigger.
Competitions usually use high spec pistols.

Things that can't be adjusted on the scope is the changing environment (to a degree).

Also if you walk up a hill to shoot down or plan shooting up into a tree from ground level. It may be still 30 yards but gravity
will alter the flight. Again only an issue if the scope is not zero'd for it or if the person shooting doesn't know how to compensate.

Really practice will tell all. You will get to know your scope, rifle setup and its limitations along with your own.

I guess I'll just zero my scope at 15 yards, set the elevation turret to zero at that range, and shoot a lot
of pellets to figure out the index numbers and marks for various ranges, unless I get advice on a better way to do it.

Thats pretty much it. A manual or person can tell you the techno basics but once you play with the scope you will simply 'get it'.

Hope that helps, sorry if its a bit lacking in personality! 

EDIT: It kinda sounds like you know all the theory but just need to get out and do the practical.
         You can then fill in the blanks to your own queries.

[Bentong]

Just sight it in to your normal shooting range then if you got a mil-dot scope...start marking distance/dot correlation.

[tookiebrookie]

Your useful range will be dependant upon how many times pumped
Thats the beauty of 'pumpers'    
Stock;
3 = 360 ish
4 = 415 ish
5 = 440 ish
.
7 = 490 ish    etc  ..... useful range is variable  

------------

Don't know if this will be helpful........ but...

All three of my stock 1377's, "82', '09 and '10, Easily & Regularly hit a 2" ball of foam
at 20 yards, two hand standing (no rest),  with 3 pumps and open sights.  3 pumps= 360 -381fps
depending on the gun.  Two are stock notch and blade,  other is stock front blade with
Williams WGRS peep.  
No mods (so far) except the '09 has a steel Crosman breech for the peep.  The '82 shoots the hardest.

So, if you scope a 1377 and 'pump it up' a bit more, 25 - 30 yards should be kindergarten easy.  

Have fun....SAFELY  

So, I've got the scope set to shoot holes in holes at 5 meters (about 16 feet).  I shoot a target at 20 yards and it's shooting high.  I adjust by using the dots 2 or 3 above the crosshairs.  Ooops! I sighted in using only 5 or 6 pumps and I'm shooting the farther target at the full ten.

At 30 yards and 10 pumps I'm ringing a lawn mower blade hung on a nail on a tree at 2 dots above the crosshairs.

So many variables!  I want to go up to the camp cottage and nail some of those chippies and red tree rats without having to resight for every distance.  I guess one lesson I've learned is to sight in at 10 pumps if 10 pumps is what I will be shooting with.  I'll learn with practice about how much lower it will shoot with those lazy 5-pump plinking shots.

[1377x]

i guess we all forgot to mention the pump number thing
glad you are getting it worked out
my next scope will have mil dots

[pirouge]

   I take out Starlings in my bird feeder at a measured 32'  with a BSA 30RD red dot, its deadly at that range, using cr.h/p's @ 10 pumps. Its very accurate out to 50' and that's all I need for my Patio - range, other shooters can do better at longer distances with a scope. The 1377c is one gun everyone should own.

[arkmaker †]

So was one of the original questions; What is it sighted in  "out of the box"? I take you meant what specs does Crosman use or used in the original design of the gun. If that is the question, it is a good one, but I think a call to Crosman will get you 20 different answers if ou asked 20 different people!!! We know the guns are not sighted in before testing like higher end guns or powder burners.

Yet, may a good question to call them on, ya know, just to see if they have an answer 

Rich

[dropshot]

All three of my stock 1377's, "82', '09 and '10, Easily & Regularly hit a 2" ball of foam
at 20 yards, two hand standing (no rest),  

Wow how do you shoot the gun if you are doing a two hand stand, your feet? You must get tired not resting.
Sorry I could not resist.