Crosman Custom Shop 1740 Target Pellet Testing

[T191032]

   Been doing some pellet testing in the Custom Shop "1740 Target" the last couple of days.  Shot off the bench, using my MTM rest, then tried as Carl [Quickster47] had suggested using a vise [in my case, a used Black & Decker Workmate].  Quite interesting results, though way too many targets to post showing groups [bench shot]. Once I had the gun locked down right in the Workmate, I could get some good groups, with a few "inexpensive" pellets outshowing more expensive ones, though I admit with one exception, I only shot 1 ten-shot groups of each tested in the vise.  You can get a little weary of shooting after a while.  For example, when you get a group from Daisy Precision Max WC that measures 0.708" compared to premium RWS R10 Match that gives a 1.116" group it kinda knocks you for a loop too.

Results of Shooting from 10 Meters, off a Benchrest position using a MTM Pistol Rest :

Pellet Shot                  Average of Four 5-shot Groups

Beeman 3011HS H & N Wadcutter      0.774"
Beeman 1261 Chinese-made Wadcutter      0.75475"
Crosman Competition Wadcutter         0.73275"
Crosman Premier SuperMatch Wadcutter      0.9685"
Daisy Precision Max Wadcutter         0.87075"
Gamo Match Wadcutter            0.893"
H & N Sport Wadcutter            0.75025"
"The Peak" Chinese Wadcutter         0.815"
RWS Basic Wadcutter            0.98075"
RWS Hobby Wadcutter            0.8105"
RWS Meisterkuglen Lite 7.0gr Wadcutter      0.94"
RWS SuperMag 9.3gr Wadcutter         0.91975"
RWS Meisterkuglen Hvy 8.2gr Wadcutter      0.7955"
RWS R-10 Match Hvy 8.2gr Wadcutter      0.54775"
RWS Club 10 Wadcutter            0.738"
RWS CO2 Target Wadcutter         1.11675"

Beeman 1222 Gold Coated HollowPoint      1.2245"
Crosman Premier Round Nose HollowPoint   1.744"
Crosman Destroyer EX            0.964"
Gamo Hunter Round Nose            1.32"
Gamo Tomahawk Pointed            1.05225"
Napier Power Hunter Round Nose         1.1385"
"The Peak" Chinese Round Nose         1.08475"
RWS SuperDome Round Nose         1.03925"


Pellet Shot                  10-shot Group Shot Workmate Vise

Beeman 3011HS H & N Wadcutter      0.599"
Beeman 1261 Chinese-made Wadcutter      1.107" *
Crosman Competition Wadcutter         1.574" *
Crosman Premier SuperMatch Wadcutter      1.363" *
Daisy Precision Max Wadcutter         0.708"
Gamo Match Wadcutter            1.876" ***
H & N Sport Wadcutter            0.674"
"The Peak" Chinese Wadcutter         0.871"
RWS Basic Wadcutter            0.996"
RWS Hobby Wadcutter            1.20"
RWS Meisterkuglen Lite 7.0gr Wadcutter      0.713"
RWS SuperMag 9.3gr Wadcutter         1.281"
RWS Meisterkuglen Hvy 8.2gr Wadcutter      0.816"
RWS R-10 Match Hvy 8.2gr Wadcutter      1.116"
Crosman Competition Wadcutter         1.372" **


* were not secured in the Workmate as securely as desired, Crosman Competition Wadcutter was re-shot accordingly as I had enough CO2 gas left to shoot 10 more before it would need replacing.

** When re-shot, it gave more of a horizontal string rather than a "shotgun pattern" of the first test, leading to the assumption that the gun was in fact not as secure in the rest as it should have been, leading to the speculation that the Beeman 1261, Premier SuperMatch and Gamo Match may have suffered a similiar fate.

*** I had an "accidental discharge" while shooting this group!  While attempting to load a pellet, and closing the bolt, one finger depressed the trigger shoe rather than front of the trigger guard, leading to a spurt of gas coming out of the chamber, a lead pellet flying down range off mark and my hands moving faster than they normally would trying to escape the CO2 discharge!

[quickster47 †]

That is some very interesting data and results.  Sort of makes me wonder why we spend money on the more expensive name brand pellets although I'm sure there must be a good reason.  But what would it be?

And you are so correct in that shooting like you did can become very tiresome and make your bones weary.  Plus recording all the data for future generations.

Carl

[arkmaker †]

Holy Crap!! You have $100,000 worth of pellets!!!
Seriously, good data. Make me like my cheapies, but then again I hear so much good about pellets like the RWS Hobbies (and others), that I will eventually get around to trying them.

[T191032]

What got me to thinking about this was a post on the Target Talk Forum board where a fella took his Steyr LP10 and put it in a vise and shot a series of pellets through it.  Comparing the Basics, Mesiterkuglens and R-10 Match, he found no difference and decided his wallet was more happy buying the Basics, too (@$4.50/tin or thereabouts at the time of the posting)!  So, I've always shot of a bench-type of setup with my MTM, and had recently acquired the Workmate to make a second shooting bench in the future, so, since it was available, I thought - "why not?"  Due to the frame and trigger frame differences, I had a bit of a problem with grip and fit, but was able to manage . . . well, ya'll saw the notes.


"Holy Crap!! You have $100,000 worth of pellets!!!"

I wish.    LOL  I'm too much of a collector, that's for sure.  This week was the first time some of those pellets had ever been shot (Destroyer EX, Tomahawk for example).  I allowed for 10 CO2 powerletts to be expended during this test, well, I'm probably going to expend two more in some additional testing just to be sure of a couple things.

"That is some very interesting data and results."

Been thinking about it, and I want to apply what I call "The Ayoob Rule" to the bench shot groups.  Of course anyone who's read a few of his articles know he'll take and shoot 5-shot groups @ 25yds and measure the tightest 3, this is an function of negating the "human error".  That itself should be interesting as well.

"And you are so correct in that shooting like you did can become very tiresome and make your bones weary."

While I shot the bench portion over two days, and expect a little "weary factor" to come into play, I actually had a harder time shooting the vise portion, as I had to sit on the concrete and adjust the gun to aim at the different target points for each pellet.  That took more of a toll on my body. 

Another thing I learned is I need to make a better (and higher) pistol perch to shoot off of to achieve less strain on the back from leaning over too much, and to get a more direct-to-target line of sight.  Already got the design in mind and mapped out.

[quickster47 †]

Been thinking about it, and I want to apply what I call "The Ayoob Rule" to the bench shot groups.  Of course anyone who's read a few of his articles know he'll take and shoot 5-shot groups @ 25yds and measure the tightest 3, this is an function of negating the "human error".  That itself should be interesting as well.

I am thinking this is Massad Ayoob.  And if that is correct he is a great instructor.  Two a couple of his courses when I was stationed in Los Angeles the absolute best one being "In The Gravest Extreme."

Carl

[T191032]

Yes sir, as in Massad Ayoob.  I've tried it with .22LR rifle in the past on an experimental basis, but never gave it a thought to measuring pellet group size, until now.  I went back and did the "Best of 3" from the bench-shot groups and averaged them out.  I swear it just leaves me wondering.  Still, looking at the change in the variable, and taking out some shots that were making a group size over an inch, or in one example (the easily available Crosman RN HP) of 2+ inches for two of the four groups, I saw some interesting numbers crop up! 


Pellet Shot                  Average of the "Best of 3" Group

Beeman 3011HS H & N Wadcutter      0.40375"
Beeman 1261 Chinese-made Wadcutter      0.29325"
Crosman Competition Wadcutter         0.287"
Crosman Premier SuperMatch Wadcutter      0.37175"
Daisy Precision Max Wadcutter         0.37775"
Gamo Match Wadcutter            0.4485"
H & N Sport Wadcutter            0.3465"
"The Peak" Chinese Wadcutter         0.395"
RWS Basic Wadcutter            0.481"
RWS Hobby Wadcutter            0.49025"
RWS Meisterkuglen Lite 7.0gr Wadcutter      0.397"
RWS SuperMag 9.3gr Wadcutter         0.51425"
RWS Meisterkuglen Hvy 8.2gr Wadcutter      0.32625"
RWS R-10 Match Hvy 8.2gr Wadcutter      0.34"
RWS Club 10 Wadcutter            0.3635"
RWS CO2 Target Wadcutter         0.4735"

Beeman 1222 Gold Coated HollowPoint      0.576"
Crosman Premier Round Nose HollowPoint   0.99975"
Crosman Destroyer EX            0.346"
Gamo Hunter Round Nose            0.537"
Gamo Tomahawk Pointed            0.39375"
Napier Power Hunter Round Nose         0.52475"
"The Peak" Chinese Round Nose         0.4085"
RWS SuperDome Round Nose         0.4075"


Disclaimer :

Your pellet delivery system, pellet and set of enviromental conditions will show various results different from these shown here.  The humbled poster learned a valuable lesson or two in this undertaking along the way and hopes to not forget what was learned.

[eric]

isn't all about your/the  barrel though --- all that testing is good for a base but will the same gun perform the same with only changing the barrel ? there is alot of good data there fer shur --- it is how you and your gun become one   

[quickster47 †]

As eric suggested I do one time and that is change the barrel on my SSP-250 and look at the results.  And they were significantly different.

Here is something very interesting from the Pyramyd Daily Blog that is a great read and very educational.

http://airgun-academy.pyramydair.com/blog/2011/05/why-do-shot-groups-move/

Carl

[T191032]

Well, as I said, I found it interesting comparing probably the least expensive pellets I have - the Beeman 1261 WC and Crosman Competition WC to the most expensive, R-10 Match, and factoring in the "best of 3" showed a slightly tighter grouping, shows I shouldn't worry about which pellet I'm putting in the 1740, but more as to trying to hold still when shooting.    I was happy that I was able to get 50 shots from a Powerlett during the vise portion (I only ran 40 shots during the bench portion, trying to stay consistent given I could shoot two targets of 20 each that way).

Used the Crosman Competition WC in the 1377 last night for the AirgunArena http://www.airgunarena.com/index.php/Main_Page  Air Pistol Sporter eMatch (6Meter) and got a 227-3X.  I've found the 1377 fairly accurate with a number of the lesser expensive wadcutter pellets.  Now I just need to start using the "1740 Target" for more of these various Matches now that I've examined the pellet situation!